220: The Right Way to Cultivate Abundance | Deep Dive

Transcript for The Right Way to Cultivate Abundance | Deep Dive (Episode 220)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:03] Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my producer Jason DeFillippo. A lot of you have written in after hearing me discuss the idea of giving value, first making mutually beneficial introductions, et cetera. And a huge number of you have used our negotiation stuff to get raises, networks to get new jobs, and launch new businesses and launch new careers. However, a bunch of you have also told me that you're having trouble executing on some of this stuff. You know, you're supposed to be generous, you know you're supposed to help others, but you're also looking out for yourself as you should and you're feeling a little bit competitive, which is only natural. If you want to learn why we do this and here's a hint, it's totally natural. We’re wired for it, as well as how to beat that wiring so that you can develop even more solid connections in your personal and professional life.

[00:00:49] Then you'll really dig this Deep Dive today here with Gabriel Mizrahi and me. This is a fun and more importantly, extremely useful conversation, so I'm glad you're with us here today. By the way, some of the basics and advanced networking stuff that I've been teaching, some of the special forces and intelligence agencies, a lot of you have asked about that. That's all at Six-Minute Networking. You can find that at jordanharbinger.com/course. I've been teaching that to a lot of three-letter agencies. I made a version of it there for you. Again, jordanharbinger.com/course and it is free. So I hope you enjoyed that and I hope you enjoy this Deep Dive with Gabriel Mizrahi.

[00:01:28] Gabriel Mizrahi back in the house talking about abundance. And I want to, first of all, I hate the word abundance because it's been—

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:01:34] I don't believe you at all.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:36] It's been commandeered by like everyone who does—

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:01:38] Co-opted by movement.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:40] Yeah. And they're like, Oh, manifest this or what? It's not what we're talking about at all.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:01:45] It's like gratitude, right? Like it's such a good important concept. And then you hear somebody leave somebody's mouth and you're like, Oh this guy.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:51] Yeah, they make an app with it and then it's screwed. So abundance is not like this belief system that you have everything plentiful because the universe provides it. It's just like not being so F and stingy.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:02:03] Basically.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:03] Let's look at it that way.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:02:04] I like that, very down to earth when thinking about abundance.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:07] Not being so F and stingy and not financially but like generous generosity of spirit. And by the way, this is a Deep Dive episode and what this means is we take a deep dive on a specific topic. Gabe and I are always the ones that do it. If you're watching us on YouTube, there are a ton more deep dives, but there are audio only in the podcast feed. We have a lot more content in the podcast feed than we do on YouTube. So, if you're like our YouTube and you've spent the last six weeks, sit down, stop watching us. There's even more in the audio feed. What's going on with the abundance thing here Gabe because for me I've always struggled with this concept personally. The idea that you can be generous with other people. As an only child, I think that was quite foreign to me. And of course, I always kind of kept that under wraps because you don't want to be like, “Oh well I can be stingy.” I get stingy and pulses. Everybody wants to look generous.

[00:02:57] And we get these notes in our Feedback Friday inbox, where people say things like, “I want to do this. I want to be generous, I want to be giving, but I just feel like I need it. I'm trying to compete for work with other people or I want to get ahead versus other people. I know that I'm supposed to be generous, but I just can't make myself do it.” So why do you, what's going on here? Why is this so difficult for people?

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:03:25] Well, the reasons why actually very simple. I think it's because the human brain is basically wired to not feel abundance. I think our natural impulse is to obsess about what we don't have because knowing what we don't have probably aided our survival more than knowing what we do have and celebrating that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:45] So being wired for lack, right? Because if I have three pieces of firewood and one dead squirrel roasting over that fire.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:03:52] In the game of Thrones version of survival. Yeah,

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:54] Right, yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:03:55] Is that the Brienne plot line there.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:57] Maybe, yeah, good point. I didn't even think about that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:04:00] No. But if you have that, your mind will probably want to fixate on the fact that in two or three days you won't have firewood and in eight hours you won't have food that would propel you to go out into the forest and go find some more firewood and go find some more squirrels. But if you sat back and you're like, “Aren't we so lucky to have three pieces of firewood and a squirrel?” Well, that might be nice. It might make you feel grateful. It might make you feel connected and might put you at ease, but it will also lead you into trouble if you're not like, “Oh, but that's going to run out. I better go find some more.” So without delving into all the nitty-gritty of evolutionary psychology, I think the broad, those are the broad strokes. Broad strokes are that the abundance mindset is not hardcoded into the human DNA and to the human mind. Scarcity, the lack, that's hard.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:46] The scarcity is hardcoded. Yeah. And it creates a catch 22 because I know that being generous requires this abundance mindset. So I'm trying to get to the abundance mindset, but it also seems like the only way to get to that abundance mindset is, I guess if you're not really sure, it's either to have so much stuff that you're overflowing, but then we're still wired for lack. So the guy or gal who has like $10 billion is probably going, “But I don't have 14 billion in Eric Schmidt does and that makes me feel a little bit less than today.”

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:05:19] Yeah, you will never run out of reasons to feel that lack. Because in a society like ours where people are always self-comparing, where other people's assets are very visible, and again where the human mind always wants to compare because that's also something that is designed to do. You're always going to probably find a way to feel a lack even if you're doing pretty, pretty well. But the catch 22 you're describing is really simple and it's also really difficult to get out of. And it's the one that I think we hear from listeners about a lot, which is I understand objectively that I need to be generous to be connected, to have great relationships, to be fulfilled, to create opportunities for myself. I get that, but I can't seem to be generous if I don't feel abundant, like how am I supposed to give if I don't feel like I have stuff to give.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:09] And then the solution that you read on people's Instagram is like if you just feel gratitude, then you'll do it. Or if you just start the process of doing, of being abundant in your life or whatever sort of woo-woo meme, then it will naturally reinforce itself and it's like, cool. That's like keeping an engine running. Somebody has got to have the pull starter.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:06:30] Yeah. Which way does it go? One way or another how do you cultivate it? Well, everybody is saying, okay, well if I need to be generous in the way to be generous is to be abundant, then I better start working on the abundance first and then I can be generous.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:41] Which makes sense.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:06:42] Which does make sense because it's the most, it's the most immediate and natural way to solve that problem. But the thing is then you're back in a catch 22 because you're like, “Wait, hang on, so in order to feel like I have something to give, I have to give.” In order to give, I have to feel like I have something to give. I think a lot of people get stuck in that catch 22 and it gets very difficult to work your way out of it because either you're trying to convince yourself of this idea, this idea in your mind that you have a ton to give abundance or you commit to like trying to be generous and then it ends up feeling empty or it doesn't last very long because it's not backed up by this feeling that you do have a lot to give.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:20] Exactly. And I think if people are, are sort of confused right now. Just think about the time someone asks you to donate to a charity. And if you make $400,000 a year, many of you don't. I certainly understand that. But let's say, let's say someone makes 400 grand. How much do you think they could afford? It's a trick question, right? Because people have different levels of debt and things like that, but how much could they afford to give to like a charity for the medical expenses of sick children? Probably a significant amount, right? Let's say this person just has their mortgage and car payment, they could, they could give 30 grand and it would not affect and that's in a single year, wouldn't affect their lifestyle at all. But then somebody who makes like 30 grand a year, they can't afford to give that much. And both of them feel exactly the same way about being asked to donate. I can't really afford to do that. That's the first thing I think of when someone's like, “Hey, can you donate some money?” And it's taken me years to be like, “You know what, I'll make the donation from the business and it's a medium-small amount.” And then I have to kind of go to my wife and go, “What can we afford to donate to our friend Justin's water charity.” And the number she names is like 20 times what I think. And I'm just like, I am stingy bastard but I'm not, I want to give and I can do it. I just don't think I have enough.

[00:08:47] So the solution that naturally would come to mind is we just need to earn more money. Stupid. Look, you can donate when you have $10 million. That's what every person is thinking. And then there are people that make 875 an hour and they're giving money to homeless people and they're donating money to their friends Kickstarter. And then they got there to GoFundMe friends and they feel like they have enough. So it's a mindset thing. It's not an asset thing. So how do we get out of this catch 22?

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:09:12] So we've established that abundance almost seems like a luxury, like something that you can get to in the future. Once I have this amount of money, then I can give some of it away. Once I have a ton of friends in fancy connections, then I can start introducing people. That's that scarcity lack mentality that we just talked about. That's hardwired. The good news about this though, is that you can override that wiring. It's designed to be overwritten. Now, that doesn't mean that scarcity and lack go away completely. They still have their function. We still need to make sure that we get jobs that can cover our expenses, that we take care of ourselves, we make sure we have shelter and food and all that stuff. Like that still fulfills an important function. But to feel the deeper abundance that sometimes can be a little bit trickier for a lot of us including me, including you, there is a way to cultivate that mentality, but it's not usually the way people think. Most people intellectually understand the value of abundance. They get that if they've heard the show or they've heard similar concepts. They know that they need to do this because this is how you build great relationships and get opportunities.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:14] Sorry for the aside here, we're not just talking about cash cause I think it's easy to be able to go financial abundance in my job. That was an analogy. A lot of people won't make introductions to other people because they feel like, well I need to use those.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:10:27] Or offer time to somebody on the phone because they're like, “I'm so busy. I can't possibly talk you through your breakup right now like I have children or whatever.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:34] Exactly, and sometimes that's very true.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:10:37] Totally very fair and we actually are going to touch on that in a future deep dive, but there are so many forms of generosity and in some ways like financial capital is the least of it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:46] Yeah. Financial is almost always the least because if you have a bunch of money and you go, “All right, here's $100.” It's like, “Well, okay, I appreciate that.” But somebody who spends an hour talking with you, something on the phone, that person who donated that money is not interested in doing that. They're like, “Look, I've already turned my effort and energy into cash and I'm just going to hand it to you because I don't really want to be involved more than that.” That's a different story.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:11:10] Totally. I mean, I would take the phone call with that person over the money any day.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:14] You see people who are really charitable in a lot of ways. They'll take a position at the non-profit and like work or run an event. That's more valuable than them going, “You know what, I'll donate 20 grand and you can hire someone to run this.”

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:11:27] Exactly. That's right. Yeah. So yeah, it's a good point. Abundance is not really just about money. Money is oftentimes the least interesting or meaningful form of abundance. There are so many ways to be generous and we are talking about all of them. At this point, to get out of that catch 22, most standard advice would go something like this. It would say, sit down for 10 minutes a day and be grateful. Think about every great thing you have in your life. Picture it in your mind. Take a moment and journal it, visualize it, all of that. Write down all the reasons you're grateful. You know, catch yourself obsessing about the things you don't have in the moment. And notice how much more you worry about what you don't have.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:09] Notice the wired for lack thing. And this isn't really bad advice. I know we’re kind of—

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:12:15] Literally you totally predict. You can read my mind is what I should say.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:18] Yeah it's fair and I think a lot of people right now are like, wait, is this, are you giving us this advice and it's like kind of, but not really. That advice you'll find all over blogs and in self-help books that are written by folks that are like really just needed to write a book.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:12:32] And honestly, if that helps you cultivate abundance, great. And I'm not saying that that's not part of it. It could be a very important part of it. I love to take a moment and be like, I'm so lucky to have this best friend. I'm so lucky to have my friend Jordan. I'm so lucky to have this job or whatever it is. We should do that. The problem though or I should say the limitation to that approach, the limitation is that you will usually temporarily make yourself feel abundant because that's just another thought that you're creating. You're like, okay, I've convinced myself for the moment that I do have a lot to give. Okay, cool. Now I can go give it, but what's going to happen tomorrow or what's going to happen next week? Or what happens when circumstances change a little bit and you don't have that job where you don't have that person or you don't have that opportunity anymore and now you can't meditate upon it long enough to make yourself feel like you have this, you know, this great asset to give.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:19] Or like someone says, “Hey can you help me with something?” And you're like, “Crap, I've got to go journal, meditate, go for a long walk and reflect. Dammit, I can’t right now.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:13:28] I can’t be abundant. I have a whole day planned of feeling abundance. Yeah. It's getting in the way.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:35] So the reason this doesn't work right all the time, or at least not for long, is because we're trying to rewrite this intellectual belief or actually quite a visceral belief that we don't have enough. With an intellectual idea that like, yes we do. And if you just stand on one foot in tree pose and chant long enough that you have everything in the universe provides or whatever, that you'll just feel differently enough to go and do it but those two thoughts battle. You’re naturally wired for lack where you go, I don't have enough. That's constantly, subconsciously, instinctively, almost, or maybe not almost instinctively fighting with your logical mind and we know that any sort of base desire that comes from that limbic lizard brain if you will, will always win in the end because it doesn't tire, it doesn't wear out. It doesn't require you to keep pumping air into its ideas. It's like, “Nope, we don't have enough. Don't give anybody else. Squat.” And then you, you know, there's not enough tree pose in the world to get you to override that permanently and make a shift and maybe some psychedelics or something, but short of that, you're not getting there.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:14:36] You're not getting there. It's like you, you work your way out of the catch 22 only to work yourself back into this other problem where these two impulses are battling each other. So even if you do manage to convince yourself of your abundance, it doesn't really usually get you closer to the end game, which acting abundant. Acting abundantly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:53] You might feel it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:14:54] You might feel it, but are you actually being more generous in your life? So if the intellectual approach doesn't work, then again, how do we resolve the catch 22? Well, the answer is that you actually don't need to feel abundant in order to be generous. And that's where the catch 22 actually breaks down. It's a false catch 22. It feels like we need to be in touch with those feelings of abundance in order to be generous with the people in our lives but we don't. It feels like we do because we like to have those feelings and it does in some cases make it a little bit easier, but it's not required. It's not necessary. So when you're trying to figure out, well, do I feel abundant to act generously or do I be generous to feel abundant? Which one comes first? I don't know. The simple solution to this. The way to cut through all of it is to just commit to the generous behavior and to not worry about resolving the abundance mindset before you get to do that,

Jason DeFillippo: [00:15:48] You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest Gabriel Mizrahi. We’ll be right back.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:53] This episode is sponsored in part by Häagen-Dazs.

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[00:19:01] Thanks for listening and supporting the show and to learn more and get links to all the great discounts from our amazing sponsors that help keep this show going, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. Don't forget we have a worksheet for today's episode so you can make sure you solidify your understanding of the key takeaways from Jordan and Gabriel here on our Deep Dive. That link is in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com/podcast. If you'd like some tips on how to subscribe to the show, just go to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Subscribing to the show is absolutely free. It just means you get all of the latest episodes in your podcast player as they're released so you don't miss a single thing. And now back to our show with Jordan and Gabriel Mizrahi.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:39] Right, because let's consider the facts, we know that generous people are more successful in life. If you haven't learned that from this show, then go back and listen to a few more episodes. Maybe because everybody who is really successful, at least the people that we've profiled here are generous in some way. Even if they're not like super friendly or nice when you meet them or they don't donate all their money to charity, they're doing something where they're usually giving back, usually. We have had just some real scumbags as well, but you know. You can't win them all. But people who invest in their relationships, they make introductions, they share their knowledge, they are generous of spirit, they show up to their friends’ events or they show up for their friends in some other way, they're often choosing to behave generously even when they don't feel like it, and that's what we need to do too.

[00:20:28] So yes, you don't feel abundant. Yes, you don't want to give. Yes, you're wired for lack. I'm just saying do it anyway. Be generous anyway. You can make introductions to people even if you don't have this giant network. You can donate money to charity. If you're going to go with the financial angle, even if you make 875 an hour, you can donate $5 to a charity and they still appreciate that stuff. You can be emotionally there for your friends or family. You can spend time on the phone helping someone through the breakup or empathizing with a problem or helping craft the solution an hour of your time on the weekend at an animal shelter. I mean, you're probably just a pain because then you get trained and you leave, but you know you get my drift here. You know you can rake the elderly neighbor's lawn for them so that they don't have to do it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:21:12] You can do all of that without feeling like you have all of this stuff to give because you're just doing it. In other words, you can be generous without feeling abundant and if that sounds simple, if that sounds deceptively simple. It just is simple. It's so simple that the mind can't figure it out because it's like, no, no wait. You're saying that I can do things without feeling like I can do them. Yes, absolutely. And that's what we're, that's what we're talking about today. I find that incredibly liberating because first of all, it cuts out a whole stage of this process that some of us end up spending weeks, months, years of our lives like I've been trying to cultivate the abundance mindset. I still can't do it, but once I crack it, boy will I be generous. Like what a relief to know that you don't have to do all that, but more importantly than that, to know that the way you actually begin to feel abundant is to act abundantly.

[00:22:03] And so what we're really talking about is abundance is a belief. It's a thought, but generosity is an action. And as it happens, actions are a lot more important than beliefs. They're more important because they're easier to do and they matter more because the beliefs follow the actions, the actions that you choose to do reinforce the beliefs that you have. I'm not saying that you can't decide one day to be like, I'm an abundant person now I will behave this way. Yes, you can. Will it be a little bit of manufactured? Probably. If it gets you there, great. But you can cut that stage out and just say, I'm going to introduce two people this week. I don't care how I feel. If I feel like I have a lot of people to introduce or I don't feel like I have a lot of people to introduce, I'm just going to introduce those to people. And what happens at the end of that action with just that one simple thing is that I would be, I would be shocked if he didn't feel like, oh, I actually do have two people to introduce. And that is the simplest definition of abundance.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:01] Exactly. It's you forcing yourself to realize this in a way by creating the belief through the action. So if you believe certain things, you act a certain way. So beliefs, creating actions. No news to anybody who's read like any sort of I guess self-helpy type book or listen to the show for a while. That's a very common refrain is that beliefs create actions but actions also create beliefs. And if you don't believe me, look at anybody who got hooked on something psychologically and they usually did that because they tried it because their friends were doing it and then them doing it to like fit in, created that addiction.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:23:35] Yeah, they didn't stop and think I really want to be an addict. I'm going to go and be good at it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:41] I believe that I'm an addict so I need to smoke more cigarettes.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:23:44] You smokes cigarettes and then suddenly you're an addict. So it's actually a strange but very useful metaphor. I don't know what that was. Or as a comparison, one of those examples, let's go through it—

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:56] I need like a poster that shows metaphor-simile analogy because I'm like—

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:24:01] Analogy that’s what it was. Yes, I was definitely going for the word analogy and I just had to say every single other possible synonym. That's how it works with generosity. Even if you don't have an abundance mindset, you are still free to behave generously. I'm not saying it will be the easiest thing in the world at first. I'm not saying that it will immediately make you happy or fulfilled, but if you know that being generous is the key to all of these other experiences in life--the great relationships, the sense of fulfillment, the ability to connect with people and to help people and to offer value to your companies, into your family, into your friends. If you know that, then there's really nothing in your way to behaving generously. So why even go through the middle man?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:42] I got an interesting note, this is a while ago and I didn't really slot it in here before, but it's more relevant than ever. Someone said, “Look, I'm actually a really selfish person and I think I'm probably narcissistic in some ways,” and they were really like shockingly candid about this. So they're like, “I really don't need or want to network or anything because I'm only looking at what's in it for me. I'm trying to outgrow this, but I just can't.” They were in their young 20s and they felt bad about this.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:14] Yeah, I love, I love this self-awareness.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:15] It was awesome. He's like, “Yeah, I've cheated on relationships and I don't feel bad, but I feel bad that I didn't feel bad if that makes sense. Like I feel guilty about not feeling guilty,” and I was like, “Oh, you need to go see therapists.”

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:27] Sure. He got some layers.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:29] Yeah, there are some layers. But what I explained to them was that actually, even if you're like a complete sociopath and you have no feelings and you just think the world is at my disposal and everyone is a toy for me to abuse, the networking and abundance mindset is still actually the most functional, highest leverage skill set you can have to accomplish those nefarious goals. And I'm not trying to be like, here's how you manipulate people. But I think a lot of people go, well I'm not nice enough and I'm fine with that. This is raw material to generate influence power. You think politicians are really like I want to change the world. Some are but the most nefarious sort of dastardly ones. They're still super well networked. They introduce people to one another that this is what power-brokering even is. It’s connecting other people and creating webs of alliances around you that are really strong and that are sort of loyal to you and this is how those people do it. Some of the most dangerous self-interested people in the world. They're just really good at the abundance thing. They don't feel, “I just want everyone to share in my joy,” and they're like, “No, I want to create tools that I can use and manipulate.” This is still the most effective way to do it. So when I get letters from people that are like, well, I'm not really in a position to do this because I have to be more self-interested right now, doing this is the height of self-interest in a way. Or it can be very generous and selfless depending on your motivation, but the actions they still have pretty much exactly the same. That's a big realization because that means that even if you're a ruthless bastard investment banker --you know who you are, I used to work with you guys-- but even if you're one of those ruthless sorts of like Gordon gecko types, this is still the way to do it. And if you are the next Mother Teresa Gandhi hybrid who just wants to be selfless and wear rags and is doing Hare Krishna stuff all the way, this is still the best way to accomplish that goal too, is to be generous of spirit and share things with other people and create those networks even if you don't feel it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:27:35] You also make a really good point, which is that when you commit to generosity and action, you're not just reminding yourself of all the things that you do have to give. You're not just cultivating abundance based on the assets that you already had that you didn't feel that you had, you're also creating new ones. So you introduced two people, they hit it off, they started a company, now you had a hand in that. Then they created all this wealth or they create all these jobs. You had a hand in that. They help you out. They send you somebody and then before you know it, you've multiplied several times over that initial form of value that you didn't feel like you had in the beginning.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:14] That's a good point.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:28:15] So actually, in the beginning we were talking about this as a way to just feel a little bit more connected to what you already have. What you're talking about is not just feeling connected to what you already have, it's being generous so that you can amplify it and that is abundance. That is the definition of abundance.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:31] That's a good point. And you know, most top performers that I've met or profiled on the show, they don't walk around with this sense of limitless value. They're cultivating that sense of value by offering it deliberately to other people. That's what I do. I don't walk around being like, I am so abundant. I have limitless. I faced this sort of conundrum or I'm swimming upstream on this every day. If you asked me to donate money to your charity, it's always going to be tough for me. Even like close friends, I'm like, yeah, I okay, I should, I need to, I will. And then I go, “Jen, write the check,” and I just don't want to think about it anymore because it's making me go like, “But I could use that money and do this other thing, whatever. You know, I could reinvest it in the business.” The rationalization that I have with that is strong. Or even just we'll go out to dinner and I'll be like, “We should treat these people.” And Jen's like, “Yeah.” And I'm just like, “Oh, it's going to be expensive.” And then I just have to not think about it because I'm fighting this urge to be more selfish every day. But I just create things like this show where I could easily just be like, yeah, let's put 17 ads in each episode. But then it's like, no, I'm, I'm, I'm an advocate for the listener. I care about the listener, but it's very, I have to deliberately do this. I am not naturally really giving and generous. I have to listen to that little voice in my head that's like, “Don't take the call from that person. Don't write a response to this person on Feedback Friday because it's going to take you longer. Choose the easier question even though this one's more urgent.” And then I go, no, I got to deliberately go down, go against what every cell in my body is screaming. Don't do it. Be self-interested. I have to ignore that and go in the other direction. And it's not easy. So if you're feeling that too in your, when you're trying this and you're like, God, my body and mind do not want to do this. I must be bad or not able to do this or it's hard. Nope, you are completely normal,

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:30:23] I find that to be a huge relief because I mean you are one of the most generous people I know. So I always sort of assumed that you were just like, “Oh, I have this innate feeling that I have so much.” Like that's actually great. But more importantly, I think it's even more evidence of the fact that behaving matters more than believing. So you can have whatever thoughts you have and you can, you're free to wrestle with those for as long as you want, but at some point, the end game has to be to change your behavior.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:49] It is. It has to be.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:30:50] So why not just commit to the behavior and then discover that you can change the belief?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:54] Yeah, look, it feels good to be generous, but I even still catch myself afterwards with thoughts I wish I didn't have. Like, well, I just gave a bunch of money to my friend's charity, so if I ever need anything from him, I can always, “Oh my God, I'm such a scumbag.” Please stop thinking about what’s in it for you.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:31:10] It's just a caveman brain. It's just ancient wiring. That’s all it is. But to your point, we can override that. It might creep up again, but you can behave differently. Or you can say, “Okay, thank you brain. I got you. I understand. I need to take care of myself. Am I taking care of myself?” “Yes. Cool.” Now I can go and help someone. I can do this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:30] Am I homeless? Nope. Am I going to be able to buy groceries? Yup. All right. Here's a check and then just stop.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:31:35] Thanks for the input. Yeah, let me just behave generously. So the real question is to get a little bit more practical. How do you actually begin that process of acting toward abundance? So we've been talking about a lot of philosophy, but I want to get a little bit more specific.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:31:50] You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest Gabriel Mizrahi. We'll be right back after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:55] This episode is sponsored in part by Solgar.

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:08] This episode is also sponsored by Arm & Hammer’s Cloud Control cat litter. I know this is a weird sponsor, but I love my cats and I love hanging out with my cats and snuggling with my cats. And it's kind of a funny way, people who see me with them who listen to the show are like, “Wow, I've never seen you like this.” So I'm kind of looking forward to it. I think it's a sneak preview to what it's going to be like having kids. Maybe it's the playfulness or the fact that they're completely a-holes at any given time and you just kind of have to put up with it and there's nothing you can do to convince them otherwise. I don't know what's not to love, but what I don't love of course, is scooping out Momo’s litter box. It's disgusting and it just smells horrible. You, you wouldn't think that it would even be possible. But then again, I don't have kids yet, so maybe I'll update you on there too. But Arm & Hammer created this Cloud Control litter, so there's no cloud of nasties, the gross like dust, the poop dust, it's 100 percent dust-free. It's free of heavy perfumes. I don't need it to smell like poop and my grandma's friends, I just, you know, poop is enough. It helps reduce airborne dander from scooping as well. So what happens in the litter box stays in the litter box.

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[00:35:55] Thank you for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard so you can check out our amazing sponsors, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. Don't forget the worksheet for today's episode. That link is in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com/podcast. If you're listening to us on the Overcast player, please click that little star next to the episode. It really helps us out. And now for the conclusion of our Deep Dive with Gabriel Mizrahi.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:36:22] Cultivating abundance begins with committing to a handful of really, really small acts of generosity in your everyday life. And I'm sure you would agree with me on this because I think we've talked about it a bunch. The smaller those acts are in the beginning, the better because if you feel like you need to cultivate abundance and start being more generous and you're not, or you're doing it inconsistently and you feel like you need to get on top of that, it can be very daunting to be like, okay, I need to like overnight I used to turn the ship around and become the most generous person on earth.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:54] Right. I guess I should drive my friend to the airport. That's one thing, but if you're going to write $2,000 check to charity. It's just like, Ooh, you've got to really work up to that. It's, it's like if you have a gym in your basement, theoretically you can get there more easily. I mean, we all know that that will come up with a reason not to, but you can get there more easily than you can if you've got to drive across town. So the answer is to do some pushups in your fricking pajamas or something if you're just starting off. Don't say like, “Oh, got to go across town to the NFL gym and hire a personal trainer.” That's not the way that you start any sort of habit. So this is exactly the same thing we're talking like while you're lying in bed, you can text a friend or a colleague or family member. I mean this is Netflix, like while you're waiting for the thing to buffer. Text a friend, family member, colleague, ask how they're doing. That seems like, “Wait, what? That's BS. That's not abundance.” This is a good start for somebody, depending on how self-interest did you find yourself. And I think for the vast majority of us, I mean I have a freaking calendar appointment that says text people and ask how they're doing because I'm so naturally not that person that I need reminders. And other people will go, “I'm not going to set a reminder and in Six-Minute Network, I'm like, trust me, set the reminder. Because you might be a better man than I can go. I will naturally think of other people. But if you're anything like me, you're going, I'm busy. I have stuff I got. I do. I'm not thinking about, I need an alarm to pop up and go, Oh yeah, I have this 15-minute block where I ask people I love how they are once a month. And it's like, it makes you feel a little crappy to have to do, but that's how you begin.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:38:37] But if it helps systematize it, if that's what it takes, great.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:40] It's what it takes for me.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:38:41] But more importantly to make each of those individual acts of service really small and easy, in the beginning, and ultimately look, even if you were the most generous version of yourself, if you were writing all the checks and driving all the friends to the airport, and introducing everybody you know, each of those commitments would be made up of these really small things anyway. I mean at the end of the day you're talking about an email, a car ride, a check. I mean these are small acts. The number on the check might be bigger, but that's a different thing. But yeah, like send one email every week to somebody in your life telling them how you help them. That's like one of my favorite emails to write as you like surprise someone new that you haven't seen in like two and a half years and you're like, “Hey, do you remember that time you crack that joke and that really awkward moment. Thank you for doing that because that made that night.” I mean it could be that small and I've written that email and I've always gotten an awesome response and it's always reminded me that I do have this friend there and then I do have this great memory and 30 seconds later I feel more connected than I did at the beginning. You can ask one random person you meet like how they're doing, give them a high five and be like, what's up? Like it's the barista or the security guard or the person who sits in the cubicle and that other department you don't actually have to talk to them. I mean these, these are such small acts of service, but they are great stepping stones to becoming a little bit more generous and they don't cost much at all.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:59] Right. I think part of the—this is a logical fallacy and I wish I tried on the tip of my tongue, but it's kind of like this all or nothing situation where some people will listen to this and go, “I really want to be generous though? I'm not going to just text people and ask how they're doing. I'm not just going to say hello to my barista and really listen to them and empathize or strike up a conversation. I'm not really going to send an email to somebody about an anecdote because these are too small. I need to do something that's really—” But here's the problem. If you're not going to do that, it's going to be a lot harder to go and do something that's even more generous and to systemize that or to turn that into a habit. It's kind of like saying, “You know, I'm not going to go to the gym and lift really lightweight even though I'm out of shape because I need to be like really pushing that iron. I need to be able to deadlift all this weight because my friends are all really strong, but I don't want to lift this lightweight.” Nobody would go to the gym and go, “Yeah, I'm just going to throw 400 on the bar. I haven't been here in six years, but I need to throw 400 on the bar.” And if people do that, you're just going, this is a bad injury waiting to happen. Most of us have to work our way up. The problem is if we go, well, that's not enough, so I'm not going to do it, and then you don't do anything. That's a problem.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:41:07] That's the problem with the all or nothing mentality is that it keeps you stuck in place. It's so tempting to think, well, if I know I need to change, then I really need to change-change. But in reality, like there's absolutely no way you're going to go overnight from being struggling with abundance to feeling 150 percent. It just doesn't work that way. But the small acts of abundance can feel, there can be some around acting in those small ways because well, you're actually doing the work and if the mind doesn't want to believe, it's like, Oh man, I lost my excuse. I can't duck my way out of this because I actually have to do the small things. My mind wanted to believe that I could do the big thing, which I can't but that was really sometimes an excuse in disguise for not actually having to be more generous.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:56] Agree. And honestly, candid aside, I think that the small things are more important than the big thing.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:42:00] I agree with you. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:01] I think there's a lot of people out there that will write their yearly $2,000 check to the charity of their choice on Christmas or whatever and the rest of the year they've got this, you know what moral licensing is?

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:42:13] No.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:14] It's where people will do something that is considered in their world very like kind moral or giving and then they do all this crappy stuff because they're like, well I bought a Prius. That's good for the environment so I can drive like a dick.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:42:32] I donated it to the pediatric ward so I can be an asshole to everybody.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:36] Like I can snap at people because I'm a good person. Look, I donated two grand last year to the children's hospital and it's not a conscious process for most of us. Like we don't slam the door in someone's face because they're being too slow or like we don't say, “Come on, I'm in a hurry to the barista,” and then go, “I'm a good person though. Look at that check, I donate it.” It's just sort of lives in the back of our head somewhere. Like the people who smile when they tell you to go F yourself or they fire you, right? They're like, “But I was friendly. I'm a nice person because of this.” “Didn't, you know, three weeks ago and now she's screwed can't get that other job.” It's like, “Yeah, but I'm nice to kids because I read to them at the library.” So if I'm in a-hole at work, it's all good. I'm still a good person. It's like we anchor our identity to like these one action, this big action.

[00:43:23] So the small stuff of actually being generous and kind every day is far more important because that's kind of the element of what makes you a good person. It's what you're doing in these tiny things that you're doing 80 percent of the time, not the one thing you did one percent of your year and then the rest of the time you're in freaking sufferable. So moral licensing is that is, it's easy to fall into that trap. It's a, I think a logical fallacy or cognitive bias, one of those. And so the reason I'm highlighting this is because choosing one minor act of kindness every day, like letting someone merge in traffic and smiling instead of being like, I'm going to passive-aggressively accelerate ahead and not look at you so that you think I didn't see you. Like just not doing that kind of stuff. Pressing the elevator button. Where's everybody going and handling that and the way to work. Running a package to the mailroom, proofreading something for a friend because you know that they need that in there and embarrassed to ask. These little things are, are the ingredients of a good person. It's not the person who has $10 million and then sets up a fund. That's a good person to maybe, but you can be equally good and/or better in as far as your impact is concerned by doing something every day that's small. I think that's important to note. Otherwise, you're sitting the college graduates, you know, first year out or go on, I can never do this. I don't have the checkbook. I don't have the network. We addressed that earlier, but I think it's important to note that you can literally be homeless and still be able to offer this level of kindness.

[00:44:53] Have you seen The Kindness Diaries? We interviewed this host Leon Logothetis on the show. He travels around the world and if you haven't heard that episode, go back and listen to it. It's recent. Leon Logothetis, The Kindness Diaries is a show on Netflix. He travels around the world and he doesn't have any money and he just meets people and he's like, “Can I stay at your house? Can I get some food?” And you know, they're filming it. So that probably helps to have a camera. But he made it around the world twice North, South and I think a West-East. And one of the early episodes of season one, he's talking with this guy and he's like, “So I need a favor, can I stay at your house?” And it turns out the guy's homeless and he's like, “You can stay with me and I have a blanket for you. And I have like cardboard and the doorway. And I'll protect you at night, but I don't have a house.” So he ends up going like, all right, and he sleeps on the streets of Philly with this homeless guy. And it was just like, wow, this guy has nothing. And he's still all these other people were like, “You can’t stay in my house. You can't stay with me, get away from me, don't talk to me.” And this guy's like, “Yeah, I don't have a house though.” So you don't have to have a lot. In fact that one of the themes or the show that I noticed was a lot of the kindest people were the people that had the least stuff. I'm sure there were wealthy benefactors and things like that that were really nice. But I mean, these gas station attendants were like, you could sleep in my place, but you're going to have a cat on your chest, you know, and a dog next to you and the baby yelling in the next room. And then my wife and I stepping over you to go to the bathroom. But yeah, you could say here. That was a theme. That was a theme I noticed of that show.

[00:46:26] So don't rational. I don't use the idea that you don't have enough to rationalize not doing this. I think that's, that's key. I'm beating that dead horse so we can move on.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:46:34] Yeah, and when you do those acts of service, the next step is to just notice what effect they have on you. So how do you feel before you did it? How do you feel afterwards? I would be shocked if you told me that you didn't feel more connected, more fulfilled, more able to help. It's really difficult to be generous and not feel like you want to be more generous, to not be more abundant. It's almost impossible. It's like if you go to the gym and you lift weights and you do that enough for enough time, you are going to get stronger. It's not like you don't need to go to the gym and be like, I believe in the concept of strength. Right. And therefore my muscles are going to grow. But for some reason when it comes to abundance, we think that that's what we need to do. We need to believe it, but you don't, and you go to the gym and you do the work. Even if it's, it doesn't even have to be an hour and a half or two hours. It can just be a little bit of work at the gym consistently and you will get in better shape. And it's the same thing with this topic. It's the thing with generosity. There's no difference at all, but the key is to check in with yourself and just be like, how is this changing my perception of the world? Do I look at things a little bit differently? Do I feel like I have more to offer? Do I feel more connected to the people I'm helping? The answer is always going to be yes.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:43] Yeah, that's a good point. I think you're right. A lot of people will go, Oh well I have to be consciously thinking of this, and it's like, no, just like the gym. You're right. It just happens because you go there like you. When you get to the gym, you have to do nothing or try it or be such a wimp ski with the amount of weight you're lifting or like use the machines and you're like reading Cosmo at the same time.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:48:01] Or like check the Gram or something.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:04] And even then you're going to be like, Oh, okay, I still got kind of a workout. You burn more calories than you normally would sitting on your couch. You really can't avoid the positive effect of this when you're doing it. So if you think, Oh, it's always going to be really hard. You'll always have that wire for lack, but it gets a lot easier because you start to go, okay, well last time I sat down and made a bunch of introductions for people and I didn't really see what the benefit would be for me. A year later I ended up getting this and this and this and this and this and these people are close friends of mine now and that would have never have happened otherwise and dah, dah, dah. You just start to see the benefits and then you go, Oh, okay so it's put a quarter in the machine and then 50 cents comes out. It just takes a while. So it still hurts to put the quarter in because you go, am I going to see this again? Am I going to see this again? Yeah. And then, later on, it keeps coming out. So you just have to keep reminding yourself that this is working in that this is good for you.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:48:59] Yeah. And I'm really glad you brought that up because I'm not, I don't think we're saying that the whole world is going to shift as soon as you start sending one email a week and it shouldn't. We're not here to tell you that. Like, suddenly you have a rosy colored glasses and like everything is amazing and all your problems go away and you suddenly have like all of this time and energy and resources to give. It doesn't work like that and it shouldn't, but it will get you a little bit closer and that matters more. You don't need to change your entire life or your entire worldview and in one act of service. That's realistically impossible. But also the world does not need to shift that quickly. Right. But you do these little acts of service, you do them for a year, I promise you your life is going to be different in a year.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:38] I think people will notice even within the first few days.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:49:41] I think they will notice it too. I just mean that like the external appearance of your life might not change overnight. And if it doesn't, that doesn't mean it's not working. It's just about incrementally working your way towards generosity.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:55] That makes sense. Yeah. So, so take stock of how people respond to your interactions, how being in touch with people makes you feel. I think that's important because it's, it makes you feel closer to them and better about yourself. And you kind of made a note on that earlier and have you made new connections? Has anything come about from that? Maybe not yet, but how was your mood? How's your outlook in life? Are you feeling like you have more people have your back as a result of doing that? Did helping those people make you want to be more generous in the future? Probably. So you have to kind of sit down and take notice of that. You don't have to meditate on it for 45 minutes just when you're done with it, that that action in the morning and then you get those responses back. Do you feel like, “Oh that's sounds kind of cool.” Sit there and enjoy that for like 10 seconds.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:50:38] Exactly. It’s so funny because at the top of this episode we were talking about how those usual approaches to abundance don't work. And one of them was sit there and think about all the things you have and meditate upon that. But what's interesting is that that practice actually becomes a lot more valuable here after you've done all the right acts of generosity, because then it's concrete, because then it's happening in your life. It's not like this abstract notion. You're actually putting it into practice.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:01] Right. It's not, the universe has a lot to offer. It's like, no, I sent five texts and four people were like, “Oh my gosh, good to hear from you. I miss you.” That's what you're supposed to feel good about. It's very concrete when you have results in front of you.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:51:11] Exactly. And the last step, and it's very simple, it's just to work your way up from the small acts of service to larger acts of generosity that will look different depending on your life and your life situation and who you are and all that. But after you commit to the small act, it gets a lot easier to scale up the generosity. So that can look like so many different things. It could mean you do two introductions instead of one. It could mean you have a two-minute conversation instead of a 30-second conversation and that could grow into a standing phone call once a week or once a month with somebody on your team or somebody in your life or you check in with your parents more often. I mean literally, it could be anything that relates to you and your needs at the moment and the needs of the people in your life. But to scale up from the small acts is a lot easier than going from nothing to the small acts. So you just keep doing it and you keep doing it more and more and more and you and you discover, you find out which ones are the ones that actually have the most impact. What do people need? Which ones give me the most fulfillment? Which ones can I offer the most? And you just keep building up from there.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:52:10] A side note, the other reason we do the small acts is because they take no time. This is like the time you'd spend on Instagram, sending a couple of quick texts, but if it's like, Oh, you need to start volunteering at the animal shelters. “Oh God, when am I going to do that? I got two kids and I got two dogs and my car is in the shop. I can't possibly, I was going to do that in six months. All right, I'll do that in six months.” Start sending texts now like you're at a red light. Don't text and drive, you parked your car at work. You can send those four texts now.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:52:39] You want to be alive so you can actually have the abundance.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:52:42] Ideally, you get a ticket.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:52:43] Do it when you're parked.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:52:46] So in closing here, the goal of this exercise is to cultivate the abundance mindset again. Every time I say that I just want to punch myself in the face. Embrace that generous behavior. Just do those small things. You don't have to worry about creating the abundance mindset because you're going through the motions. You don't have to believe anything. You just have to go through the actions. You just have to mimic the actions of people who are generous and see the benefits and that will create the generosity later on.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:53:13] And what's interesting is that all of those virtues that we want to cultivate in our life, all those feelings that we're trying so hard to get --empathy, kindness, patience, hope-- all of those things, they work the same way. You don't sit in a lotus position for 30 minutes every day and say, I'm going to cultivate the idea of hope today and therefore I will be hopeful. You act the way a hopeful person would act. You look at a situation at work that's really difficult and you say, if I had hope that we could solve this, here are the things I would do, and you do those things. And then at the end of it, at the end of the day, again, I'd be shocked if you didn't feel a little bit more hopeful because you're actually putting it into practice. And the same thing with empathy. The same thing with kindness, right? You don't have to say, I'm going to cultivate an idea of empathy. You meet somebody, it's a tough situation and you say, I'm going to take a moment and try to understand where they're coming from. Empathy is a concept doesn't even have to figure into it. You just have to be empathetic in practice.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:05] That's funny because a lot of people when they try to handle these types of things, they use new-age concepts like affirmations and things like that, but nobody would go, Hey, you know what? You don't have to go to the gym. Just stare a stare at yourself in the mirror and say these things out loud and you'll get fit.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:54:18] I deserve to be strong.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:20] Nobody, nobody would do that, but yet when it comes to all these other, I guess what I'm trying to say is this generosity. This is a physical skill. Before it is like some sort of belief system that you take on.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:54:31] It's an act.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:33] Right, it’s an act which made up of discreet physical skills, texting people, calling people, showing empathy. Like these can be broken down to just like shark level, lizard, brain physical skills.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:54:45] Exactly. Just like those other qualities we just talked about. You don't have to feel them in order to do them. I'm not saying it's not easier when you feel them. I get that. I get that. We want to feel a certain way to do with them. But that's the same thing with work. It would be easier to go to work if I woke up excited to go to work. Sure. But you will be a lot more excited to go to work if you go to work and do a good job. Just do a good job.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:55:07] Good analogy.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:55:08] We can do the work whether we feel like it or not. And that's the beauty. And to me, it's so liberating to know that you don't have to go through the middle man and you can just commit to the behavior. And that's the bottom line of this exercise is just behave generously.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:55:21] Yup. Behave generously and it'll get easier over time. But it will probably, well, I shouldn't say probably there's a chance that we'll never become completely automated and automatic and shifts your entire worldview. If you're anything like me, you'll fight it for a long time and that's okay. It doesn't mean that it's not working. It doesn't mean you're not a good person. It just means you got to do more of the manual process to get it done. And they both work equally.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:55:44] They both work equally well. And the truth is, when you think about it like that, it actually makes abundance a lot more meaningful. If it were this natural, easy built-in thing where we just were able to feel it all the time and act on it easily, that would be wonderful. I think we'd all prefer that we didn't have to work for something, but because we have to work to cultivate it, in my mind anyway, that makes it more meaningful.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:06] Well said. To go back to the gym analogy, you don't go to the gym, get in shape, and then go, well, “I'm done. I'm in shape now so I can stop coming.” It's just hitting it over and over and over and the results start to speak for themselves. Again, just like going to the gym. You look in the mirror and you can see it with this. You sort of look into the life mirror and you go, wow, look at all these new connections and friends that I have and these opportunities I've got as a result of doing this. You no longer have to sell yourself on it. It's, it's self-evident why this is important. Gabriel, thank you very much, man. This is awesome.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:56:36] Of course, yeah. I’m happy to be here.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:39] I hope that was helpful for everyone. I know that a lot of people struggle with this and I'm so glad that we got a chance to clarify this subject. Take a little bit of the sting slash shame out of it and help people with strategies on how to overcome that because it really is that long game that we're playing here and when you play that long game, you will win long term. The results come slower but they are stronger and they are unstoppable. It really is a game-changer and if you put a little bit of faith in yourself to execute on this stuff for six minutes a day or just a few minutes per day, you will start to realize that you can DYI or rewire yourself in a way that's more beneficial.

[00:57:14] And if you want all of that in a practical way, go to Six-Minute Networking. That's our free course that'll help you with the actions required to put this stuff into play. jordanharbinger.com/course is where that's at. Again, it's free. It will change the game for you and it will be the step by step that you need that we discussed here today to do the action so that you can start to quote-unquote feel abundant after the facts. Again, you can find all that at jordanharbinger.com/course. Speaking of building relationships, tell me your number one takeaway here from Gabriel Mizrahi and I on this Deep Dive. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. There's a video of this interview on our YouTube channel at jordanharbinger.com/youtube. A lot of you haven't seen Gabriel on camera before. Now's your chance, I suppose.

[00:57:57] This show is produced in association with PodcastOne. This episode was co-produced by Jason Deep-Dive DeFillippo and Jen Harbinger. Show notes and worksheets by Robert Fogarty. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. Remember, we rise by lifting others and the fee for the show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful, which should be in every episode. So please share the show with those you love and even those you don't. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:58:26] Thank you again to Arm & Hammer for creating new Cloud Control litter and for sponsoring today's episode, there is no cloud of nasties when we scoop. It's 100 percent dust-free, free of heavy perfumes and helps reduce airborne dander from scooping. So what happens in the litter box stays in the litter box. New Cloud Control cat litter by Arm & Hammer. More power to you.