367: How to “Fix” Your Relationship without Nagging | Feedback Friday

Transcript for How to "Fix" Your Relationship without Nagging | Feedback Friday (Episode 367)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. Today, I'm here with Gabriel Mizrahi, and I'm wearing a Hawaiian shirt because I just want you to relentlessly make fun of my wardrobe and haircut or lack thereof, but I am getting an underground haircut, Gabe, this coming week.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:00:27] Oh, nice dude.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:28] The corona cut, I know, like --

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:00:29] Is that technically a Hawaiian shirt you're wearing? Because it's actually pretty dope.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, um --

 Gabriel Mizrahi: It's not a Hawaiian shirt. It's something else.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:30] It's like I-haven't-quite-hit-my-mid-life-crisis-level Hawaiian shirt.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:00:32] Yeah. Or you're like an early-stage Florida cool dad. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:34] Early-stage Florida cool dad shirt, yeah. Anyway, enough about me. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most brilliant people, turn their wisdom into practical advice you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how amazing people think and behave. High-performers if you will, although that term's, it's getting a little played. Our mission is to help you become better informed, more critical thinkers. So you can get a deeper understanding of how the world works, how your own brain works, and make sense of what's really happening.

[00:01:04] And if you're new to the show on Fridays, we give advice to you and answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes to authors, to thinkers and performers. And this week, we had Benjamin Hardy. He is a psychologist. He's telling us about why personality tests are essentially unscientific garbage most of the time. And they can do a lot of harm. If you have a personality test that says, "Oh, you're the type of person that isn't creative. You're more of a logical thinker." There's evidence that these people who take these tests in like sixth grade, when they're hungry, choose entire career paths based on this. And you can take the same test the same day or on another day in a different mood at a different time of day, fed, unfed, slept, unslept, you get a completely different result. So spoiler alert, they're kind of pseudoscientific counterintuitive -- episode with my friend Benjamin Hardy. We also had Bill Nye the Science Guy. That was a particularly interesting interview for me because we did it in a recording studio that just reeked of weed. Anyway, I tell the story during the show. It's just kind of a funny situation that I found myself in.

[00:02:09] And I also write every so often in the blog. The latest post is How to Ask for Advice and Make the Most of It. A lot of people have been asking for advice from me, from you, from a lot of other folks. And I'll tell you, they're making a lot of mistakes. "Do you have any general tips on this really complicated topic?" I wrote all the mistakes I could think of that were showing up over and over again. And we put them in this post, How to Ask for Advice. And it was such a commonly referenced post in the past few weeks that I made the URL jordanharbinger.com/advice. You don't even have to go to the blog and look through the other articles, just go to jordanharbinger.com/advice and find out why the thing you probably just asked me was actually not a good way to ask for advice. So I know I just started this episode on a little bit of a -- I made fun of myself. I made fun of a national hero. I made fun of a psychologist. And now making fun of people asking me for advice. I'm kind of a garbage person today. I'll concede that.

[00:02:59] Make sure you've had a look and to listen to everything we created for you this week. Of course, our primary mission here on The Jordan Harbinger Show is to pass along our guests and our own experiences and insights along to you. So the real purpose of this show is to have conversations directly with you. That's what we want to do today and every Friday here on Feedback Friday. We want to place one brick in the structure that makes up your life. You know, I want to help you avoid a lot of the mistakes I've made, including wearing Hawaiian shirts.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:03:25] Maybe we can make that one of the next articles on the site.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:27] How to Pick a Wardrobe That Doesn't Make You Look like a Douche?

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:03:30] Totally. You nailed it, first try.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:32] I'm good at titles. You can reach us at friday@jordanharbinger.com. And before we dive into this week's Feedback Friday, last week, Gabriel, we had kind of a crazy letter. Do you want to kick this one off?

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:03:44] It was a doozy. Yeah. Yeah. We got a crazy letter last week from a guy who had basically gone to a culty large group awareness training program. He hooked up with his bandmate and best friend, and then later confessed according to him, to sexually assaulting her because, according to him, his creepy large group awareness training program basically hijacked his mind and made him willing to confess to a crime that he says he didn't commit.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:08] Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:04:09] So the guy wrote in asking us for advice on how to mitigate the legal disaster he had created for himself, and how to find work, and how to live a normal life now that, again, according to him, he's been wrongly placed on the sex offender registry. So it was a very tricky letter and it was a long letter. It was a letter that made it difficult to understand exactly what had happened between him and this other person, but made it abundantly clear that after it happened, he made some disastrous choices and desperately needed some advice to help navigate his way out of.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:38] We got some feedback from you all, which was, "Hey, what about the victim?" And here's the thing, I do have sympathy, the utmost, for anybody who's been a victim of a crime, especially a sexual assault. But when we get letters on Feedback Friday, all we have is one person's version of one side of the story. So we only have as much information as that person provides. Yes, we try to read into the situation, but remember, our goal is to help you, no matter what. Not to shame you, judge you, say, "Look what happened here," because we don't actually know. I mean, his version of the events was, "I didn't even do this. I confessed to this in a weird way because of this weird cult awareness training thing that I had just taken, but I didn't do anything. Nothing happened." And that was a confession that was taken in court. So this guy didn't see a fair trial in many ways. He confessed to something that he says that he didn't do. And while that's tragic, and while there is a victim's side of this, it would have been a shame to end the question by going, "Well, you confessed and you know, there's a victim here, maybe, so you're screwed." We want it to help this guy because look, at the end of the day, even if he was guilty, this guy needed help. He needed help moving forward even if he was guilty. 

[00:05:51] So a lot of people felt like that really wasn't addressed. I kind of wanted to say, "Look, even if you did something horrible, like you killed someone and then you said, 'Oh, I guess I shouldn't have joined that murder cult,' I'm still going to try and help you move forward here on the show. Yes, I probably won't invite you to Thanksgiving dinner, but I'm still going to try to help you to the best of my ability because you're reaching out to me for help and you're still a human being; you still have things that you want to accomplish in your life. And this letter to me sounded like a tragedy -- multiple tragedies stacked on top of one another.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:06:23] Yeah. There was a lot going on. On top of that, what's hard is that any first-person story is going to be biased. Like anyone can say anything they want in these letters, but the format that we're working with on the show is: you tell us a story, and as long as it doesn't sound absurd or completely irresponsible, we'll engage with that letter, assuming that it's true. And in this case, we had only the information he wanted to share to go on. If he did write in though, Jordan, I feel like if his story were, "Hey, I got into this situation with this woman. I actually did this crime. I did it. I served my time and now I want to figure out what to do with the rest of my life," I think our answer would have been very different. But that's not what happened, and of course, we can't fact-check it. There's no way we could do that. We're also not judge and jury in this criminal trial, but given the set of circumstances and the reason he was writing into the show, we wanted to at least meet him in the place where he was without trying to figure out if what he was saying was actually 100 percent objectively the true story of what happened. Although he did seem very credible, I will just say there's absolutely no way to know where the gaps in that story really are.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:21] Exactly. So, look, it's not that we ignore the other side of the story when we get a question like that. And if you have no clue what the hell we're talking about, and you're frustrated right now, go back and listen to last week's Feedback Friday [ed. note: technically the Feedback Friday two weeks ago; it's linked in the show notes], or just give up on Feedback Friday if you're new to the show and listen to an interview with Mark Cuban or something like that, come back to this later. I just wanted to clarify that because I want everyone to know like, look, we're going to help you no matter what, and we're going to look out for you no matter what, but it doesn't mean in looking out for you that we're ignoring the other folks. We just don't have their input. You have the mic, so to speak, when you write in. In any event, I knew this one would draw some strong reactions. I appreciate all of those reactions. Some people were shocked by what happened to this guy. Some people were disturbed by what he had done. Some people were totally at a loss.

[00:08:03] Anyway, I love hearing from you guys. I'm always open to considering other points of view. That's the spirit in which people write into the show, and that's the spirit in which I try to engage with them and with you as well. So that said, we've got some great new ones this week. Let's dive in. Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:08:18] Hey, Triple J. I'm a digital sculptor, two years out of college, who just hit the infamous two-year mark at a high profile company. I'm also lucky enough to live on the East Coast in a family-owned city apartment that no one was using.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:30] Hmm. 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:08:31] Hmm. That sounds nice. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:32] Yeah. Free rent in New York, okay.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:08:33] That sounds dope.

[00:08:34] My problem is that I have only worked for this company, and it's the biggest one in my small industry. I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket. The best way for me to grow professionally by far is to move to L.A. Related industries, like animation, have more opportunities for the work I do. My good friends are all artists in the big Burbank studios. And the options for free networking and education are great. I did a test run living there for a month last year and made a ton of great connections. Meanwhile, the East Coast has absolutely nothing for me professionally, except maybe for a little seasonal depression. I've been planning to move when COVID dies down, but after living basically rent-free in New York, the high cost of living in L.A. terrifies me, despite my steady stream of work, I'm constantly scared that the projects will dry up and I'll be left scrambling to pay rent. All my professional work is also non-disclosure.

[00:09:23] By that, I think, she means that she can't use her existing work to show potential clients.

[00:09:29] So the more work I do paying living expenses, the less time I have to make good portfolio pieces, I can show to potential clients. And there's only so much I can cut down on rent when I need space for a large computer art setup in my room.

[00:09:39] Okay. So financial constraints and some work stuff that makes it hard.

[00:09:44] Every time I think about moving, my anxiety spikes through the roof, but if I stay where I am, I'll just stagnate professionally forever and my network in L.A. will fade out. Do you have any advice on how to tackle this? Thanks so much, Stuck with Sculpting.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:59] Well, first of all, what is a digital sculptor? I've never heard of that? 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:10:01] So digital sculpting is 3D-sculpting with software that sort of pushes and pulls and manipulates objects as if they were made of a real substance like clay, but it's all digital. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:11] Oh, that's cool. I wonder if you wear like Nintendo Power Gloves and you move it around, or if you use like, the mouse to do that? 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:10:17] Like a Minority Report glove.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:19] Yeah. Like a Minority Report glove. That sounds really complex but really cool though. His whole setup sounds like Minority Report except he gets paid. All right. So, Gabe, you left a stable career to be a screenwriter, which by all accounts is generally ill-advised. What was your plan? 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:10:34] It was the greatest way to tee up that question. That is true. It's very ill-advised. Well, let me just call out the fact that I was born in L.A., so that was a huge advantage. I didn't have to move there. And I think if I had to move to L.A., my experience would have been very different. It's extremely intimidating and difficult to move here. If I had to just separate out these things, it sounds to me like you're stuck right now between a comfortable, but unsatisfying life in New York and potentially uncomfortable, but more satisfying life in L.A. That's basically what the question is. Your choice is between safety over fulfillment or whether I want to be happy, or if I want to be steady. What's interesting to me though, is that you already feel anxious in New York right now. Like you're scared that your projects are going to dry up, even though there's no sign that they will. You're also anxious about stagnating in New York. 

[00:11:23] So I guess my question is: if you're already anxious and a little scared, even when you're safe, why not choose the anxiety and the fear that's going to advance your career and your life, the one that you feel in your bones that you want? Because it sort of seems like a false choice, like either I feel okay or I don't, but you're sort of feeling not great either way. So I think all else being equal, you probably want to choose the form of instability that matches what you want to do with the rest of your life. I think that's basically what this comes down to. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:49] Yeah, of course. How to go about this practically? If we're going to choose unsafe, there's a right way to do this. We see these people that go, "Yeah, you know, leap and the net will appear." And then they end up on Venice Beach making sand sculptures and being like, "Hey, I need money because I don't have a place to live except right next to this sand alligator that I just made." There's a right way to do this so that you're not totally screwed if you hit a speed bump.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:12:13] Yeah. I think there are a few things that you could do. I mean, one thing is to give yourself a set period of time in New York to develop your portfolio now, while you have the time and security. Give yourself three or six months to create a foundation of work and the relationships that you'll need to make it in L.A. So whatever that means for your website, your portfolio, your branding, all that stuff, frontend load that now so you're not moving to L.A. and then scrambling to do that while you service your client work and then wondering, "Oh, man, why am I not making it in L.A.?" when you could have given yourself that advantage three or six months ago. I don't want to get into personal finance stuff because you haven't told us what your situation is, but I do think it's probably generally wise to save as much money as you can, seriously. You're not paying rent right now. That's a huge gift. Build a little buffer. You will need it at some point. It also gives you some psychological relief if things in L.A. take a little bit longer than you think they will. What else should she do?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:03] I think keeping relationships alive. A lot of people, when they move, they think, "I've got to network" and they want to do it in the new place or they move and they go, "Oh, yeah. I lost touch with everybody from my old place. And I'm just so busy. I just moved here." Then three years later, you're like, "Oh, I need to call my old boss. Oh, wow, I've never bothered to talk to him again. That's kind of a problem." You should really make sure you stay connected. Otherwise, things are going to fade. You don't want your relationships to fade. It's a wasted opportunity. Continue helping people, continue taking an interest in them in both locations. I think it goes without saying: try and find your job before you move. It requires some extra hustle. Maybe you should fly out there. Do a little job hunting, do some interviewing, set things up before you go there. It'll be worth it. Stay at a freaking youth hostel if you have to, couchsurfing, what have you needed to do, but get a job lined up because it might take months or you might hear, "Oh, you know what? We're not hiring generally until X season, because that's when we hire all of our new people and it's a cohort and we don't hire until July," and you're like, "Oh, crap. I just moved out here in February. So now I'm working at some Cantina for four months." That's not ideal.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:14:10] Yeah, exactly, especially with the COVID situation, these things might've been pushed. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:14] Right. 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:14:14] Also you have a very specific skill set, which is a huge advantage because your work can speak for you before you physically are in L.A. So it's not like you're like interviewing for, I don't know, let's just say a sales position or something where your personality in the room is probably going to determine 80 percent of whether you get that job. But here you can share your work ahead of time, you can meet with people, you can point to work you've done before, especially if you take a little time to develop those samples in advance. That's a huge advantage in one column for you. I will just throw this out there though, as somebody who grew up here, and moved away and moved back -- 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:45] In L.A.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:14:45] In L.A. Yeah. I want to say that you might mentally prepare for the fact that this move will not be easy, even if it goes spectacularly well. L.A. is notoriously difficult to move to, even for people who are sociable and productive and have jobs and are good with meeting people, like know that it will take maybe a year or maybe more. I hear it all the time, to find your feet. I don't say that to intimidate you. I think you can totally do it. I just want you to know because I feel like I've talked to a lot of people who move here and they are not prepared for how hard the transition is sometimes, but it is a great city and it will be worth it. And if you have a good circle, it will be amazing. The anxiety you feel about moving is real. The flip side is that if you do make it out here with your skill set, you will feel so thrilled about your success. It sounds like you're a sort of professionally dying or stagnating in New York and it's slowly killing you a little bit. And I think you know what you have to do. So if you do it smartly, I think you can totally make this happen if that's what you want. The coolest part is you'll feel even prouder of yourself, I think more fulfilled and connected to your work. I say, do it, but do it intelligently.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:43] Weren't you one of the first people when I moved to L.A., I remember this story, actually, I moved to L.A. and I reached out to you -- I don't even know, a few months after we met. And I said, "Hey, we should do something." You said, "Yeah, I'm having a dinner party. Why don't you come by?" or something like that. And I think the day before or the day of --

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:16:00] Oh, yes, yes, I remember this now.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:01] Yeah, what was it? I said --

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:16:02] You know what it was, dude, this is one of the sweetest memories of our friendship. We had dinner a few months after you moved here. I think you didn't even have a car and you walked six miles in your Converse or something from your house to this restaurant. I didn't know that I would've chosen a restaurant closer to you!

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:14] It's like, "Thanks for picking me up, d-bag!"

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:16:17] But I think the day before we texted, we had made dinner plans, like four or five days in advance, and then the day before I texted -- is that what you're talking about? When I was like, "Hey, are we still on?" or something.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:25] And I was like, "Yeah, but I was going to text you the same thing because literally people don't even show up and they ghost me in L.A." 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:16:33] And I was like, "What?" Like, I didn't even know that. Because I grew up here. So I guess I didn't know that many flaky people.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:37] Oh, my God.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:16:38] I just was like, "Really? That's happened to you?" And you're like, "Dude, that's happened to every single person. Every person I was supposed to meet up with, that's happened." 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:44] Yeah, me and my old business partners, when we moved to L.A., we had a housewarming party and the only person that showed up was one girl that I invited. And they were like, "Yeah, whatever. I didn't even care. I didn't even invite anyone." And I was like, "Yeah, you did. We did this together. You invited like 20 people, zero people showed up," and I just ended up hanging out with this girl and we went out to dinner. I never felt like more of a loser, although I guess those guys probably felt worse and tried to hide it. And she also lived in L.A. and she goes, "This is totally normal and I'm not surprised. And it doesn't make you look bad because it really just doesn't even matter." But I was shocked.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:17:21] That makes me so sad. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:23] It was weird. You have a party in New York, dude, people are showing up who were not invited. You invite 30 people to a party in L.A., no one goes. It's so weird.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:17:32] It's weird. It's like, there's like a bad social contract in L.A. I think when it comes to that particular thing of like, "Oh, can we reschedge?" Like 30 minutes before you're supposed to --

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:40] "Reschedge? It's a baseball game. I'm at the stadium. I'm holding a hot dog in my hand for you!"

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:17:45] Yeah, exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:46] Yeah. "I'm sitting here with your drink and your ticket! No!" the anxiety you do feel about moving is real. I think you're right, you will be fine, but you need to lay the groundwork. Don't show up thinking you're going to get a job in the industry that you want because if L.A. is such a mecca for 3D digital sculpting, you bet you're not the only person who moved to L.A. from anywhere in the world trying to find a gig in digital sculpting. So while you have free rent, definitely make sure you lay the groundwork so that when you get there, you have a soft landing. 

Peter Oldring: [00:18:19] You are listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show and it is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:24] This episode is sponsored in part by BiOptimizers. If there's one mineral, you've got to be worried about not getting enough magnesium. Magnesium is the body's master mineral powering over 300 critical reactions, including fat metabolism, energy, even digestion is influenced by the presence of magnesium. There are two big problems here, magnesium, apparently, Peter, has been largely missing from US soil since the 1950s, which is --

Peter Oldring: [00:18:49] Really?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:50] That can only be the Russians. 

Peter Oldring: [00:18:51] It has to -- well, I mean, the Canadians could be trying to siphon it north of the border. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:54] That's right.

Peter Oldring: [00:18:55] Like in an avocado production going up there. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:58] Maybe their avocado is rich in magnesium. I have no idea.

Peter Oldring: [00:19:01] I think. I don't know that I've ever had a Canadian avocado.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:05] No, there's a market opportunity for you. Up to 80 percent of the population may be deficient and most supplements only contain one or two forms of magnesium when in reality, there are at least seven forms of magnesium that your body needs and benefits from. And again, I've just got to blame Putin for this.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:19:21] I will.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:22] They're taking all of our magnesium. 

Peter Oldring: [00:19:23] Yeah. Did, didn't, who cares? Blame him, blame Putin.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:26] Why not?

Peter Oldring: [00:19:27] Whatever it is. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:28] My buddy is a biohacker nerd, created Magnesium Breakthrough with all seven forms of the mineral with volume discounts combined with our custom 10 percent off code JORDAN10, you can save up to 40 percent off select packages of Magnesium Breakthrough. That's available at magbreakthrough.com/jordan. That's magbreakthrough.com/jordan. A couple of people said, "Hey, the checkout is a huge pain." They've revamped the checkout process. It's much friendlier and easier. Peter, tell him where to get that again, where to find it.

Peter Oldring: [00:19:54] Would love to.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:55] Tell them where Putin put our magnesium.

Peter Oldring: [00:19:57] Yeah, I really hope that this conspiracy theory on the missing magnesium starts to trend. Go to www.magbreakthrough.com/jordan. Use the coupon code JORDAN10 to save up to 40 off select packages to get the most full-spectrum and effective magnesium product ever. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:16] This episode is also sponsored by HostGator. Whether you need an online portfolio for your freelancing gig, a hub for your businesses, or a place to archive all your podcast's new show notes, there are still plenty of reasons to own your own website in this day and age. One of the biggest reasons might be to control over what shows up first when people google your name.

Peter Oldring: [00:20:33] Oh, boy.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:34] Yeah, you got to be careful. My friend Chase Hughes pointed out when we had him here on the show, people are hardwired to respond to authority. So if your website's one of the first things they see when they're looking for you online, your credibility, your authority shines through, but if they find like your MySpace profile first, your old one, or like you're not up-to-date --

Peter Oldring: [00:20:51] Oh, my goodness. If you've got a killer MySpace, then you are set.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:55] You've got your band tracks on there? 

Peter Oldring: [00:20:56] Then you're in trouble. You know, what's so funny? I just looked at my name just the other day. I really don't do this very often, two or three times a week. But what popped up is like this interview that I did years ago and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh. Why is that kind of right up at the forefront? That's weird."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:11] Yeah. That's not good. I wonder what that was. I'll have to look for it now, too. HostGator's 99.9 percent uptime guarantee and around-the-clock support ensures your website's available to the eyes of the world every day. And every night of the year.

Peter Oldring: [00:21:22] Got a tight budget? No worries. As long as you're a new user, you get to try any HostGator package for up to 62 percent off the normal price, just for hearing the sound of Jordan's voice. And if you are not completely satisfied with everything HostGator has to offer, you've got 45 days to cancel for a refund of every last penny. Check out hostgator.com/jordan right now to sign up. That is hostgator.com/jordan. 

[00:21:49] And now back Feedback Friday on The Jordan Harbinger Show. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:55] All right, what's next?

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:21:56] Dear Jordan and team. I'm in a relationship with an engineer who works very long and odd hours, and we've been together for over a year. We first met at the gym and bonded over active dates and workout causes. Fast forward a year later, he's completely fallen out of an exercise routine, sleeps until 12 on workdays during the pandemic, and works all day with some video game breaks. I work in the wellness field and I'm getting annoyed by his habits. He claims he doesn't have time to exercise or to take a break and spend some time with me, but he'll work until 3:00 a.m. or start playing video games at midnight until the wee hours of the morning. Then he falls asleep on the couch most nights because he can't wind down and it feels like I'm waking up to a roommate instead of my boyfriend. He also gets so consumed in work that he loses track of time and won't eat until dinner time. It's hard for us to get in some quality time because he gets so zoned in. I know I've brought up a lot of complaints here, but I do love him and he treats me amazingly when he's present and puts his work down. He's the first guy I've fallen in love with. This is my first serious relationship. And I had hopes of seeing a future together, but these habits are starting to cloud that vision. My question to you is: how do I bring all of this up without sounding like a nag and only focusing on the negative? I realize that relationships evolve and annoyances will pop up, but I know the love is there for both of us. Sincerely, Missing the Honeymoon Habits.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:13] Well, I get this. Normally when we're in relationships, we see all sides of people and things can get a bit less romantic. You know, the honeymoon phase is over. That said, I think you're a little justified here. This isn't, "Jordan leaves his underwear and socks on the floor. Ah, I guess he's a real person." This is more like, "This isn't even the same person that I knew before." I don't know what you think, Gabe, but this guy sounds a little depressed.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:23:35] Yeah, a little bit.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:36] I enjoy video games as much as anyone, maybe not like a gamer, but it sounds like he's gotten into a rut having traded physical fitness entirely for video games, terrible sleep habits, it wouldn't surprise me if there's some junk food involved here, because I get it. You bringing this up in a list is going to seem like you're a nag and you're on the attack. But I think if you bring it up in a way that's more concerned, you might get him to open up a bit instead of, "All you do now is sleep in and play games and you never spend any time with me." I think a better approach might be, "Hey, so I noticed your sleep patterns are kind of weird and you're not able to do much outside these days. Are you feeling okay? Do you feel a little lethargic? Are you feeling a little slovenly?" You know, then once you've had a conversation with him about how negative habits might be affecting his performance and his life, then -- and only then -- should you move on to how those same habits might be affecting your relationship with him.

[00:24:31] And getting people to make big changes at once can be rough, but I think if you set it up so that you're actually doing something together, such as doing a workout in the morning, you'll achieve a few things. One, you get them up early, you know, "Hey, let's wake up at eight and do a workout tomorrow." You know, you wake them up early. It's good for his productivity. It's good for his sleep habits. You both get that workout in. You spend time together. And don't let them off the hook easily. If he works until 3:00 a.m., get him up at seven or eight anyway, to do that workout, and get to work afterward. You don't need too many days like that where you go to bed at three o'clock in the morning or four o'clock in the morning and you get up at eight. You don't need too many days like that before you start going to bed at a reasonable time. My guess is that night he goes to bed at a reasonable time. And I know that some of what he's going through sounds a bit like depression or possibly the beginning of depression, so definitely chat about that. But to me, this sounds like it could also be just the consequence of a person losing their regular schedule and slipping into bad habits because you don't have a commute, you don't have to get up early, and you can kind of fake it with the whole work schedule thing because of that lack of structure, as opposed to somebody with a clinical issue.

[00:25:37] If you suspect things are worse though, definitely talk to a doctor, because I'm not a doctor. I just play a crappy one on this podcast, but it sounds a little bit like pajama syndrome where it's, "Oh, I don't have to go to work. I'm working from home. Let me just wear my PJs today." Three days later, you got pizza stains from Tuesday on your shirt and you know, you haven't slept a night in your bed, and you're 12 hours into some Adventures of Zelda remake on your Xbox or whatever. I think that it just sounds like the schedule's gotten out of hand for him and he hasn't recovered. He might need a forcing function. And you're not a nag, especially if you make it about him. What do you think, Gabe? 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:26:16] Totally agree. I think if she approaches him with compassion and patience and leads with her love for him, which she said is still there -- which is amazing -- and she articulates what she's seeing without too much judgment on her part. Then this will go very well. I have a good feeling about it. Definitely invite him to articulate what he's feeling, ask him what he wants, how he feels about all this, get him to acknowledge the things that you're seeing more objectively. That will make it a little bit easier for that information to go down. I would say be honest, but be kind. I mean, he might be in a more fragile state, especially if he's in a little dip right in an hour, just off his usual routine. Maybe not sleeping well, not taking care of himself. I don't know, maybe he's not doing so well in Fortnite right now. I don't know -- that probably doesn't help!

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:54] Getting killed out there!

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:26:55] He's getting killed out there by his squad. So invite him rather than tell him to develop these better habits and then give them a chance to remember the guy he was when you guys first met. And if he doesn't after that or after a couple of tries, then it's a different conversation, but he definitely deserves a chance. And it sounds like you definitely still love him and want to give him that chance. And he will probably be super grateful to you for helping him get back on track. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:18] All right, next up.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:27:19] Hey guys, do you have any recommendations on how to be better at verbalizing appreciation? In the past year, I started working in grants administration at a major prestigious university. I make it a point to outwork everyone, but also to help anyone I can to succeed. After a couple of months, I was presented with spot awards, which are basically awards for exceptional contribution to the school, which were accompanied by private speeches of appreciation for my co-workers. I smiled, I nodded, I said thank you, and let them know I appreciated everything they taught me, but this all makes me very uncomfortable. I don't feel like I said enough or went deep enough in my responses to them. On the other hand, when I see that my colleagues are stressed, I'll often just take on their task or give them some of their favorite candy, which I bought when they told me they liked it. I think I show appreciation more than verbalize it. I want to be good at both. I notice this extends out to romantic relationships, friendships, and family as well. When I analyze people who are good at this, I notice that they're far more willing to be vulnerable than I've been. Thank you for any insight you can provide. Stay awesome. Signed, Showing, Not Telling.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:24] Well, I'm the same way. I'm not a huge believer in like, The Five Love Languages or anything like that, but there's some truth to that kind of thing. And some of us are great at giving gifts and showing affection and other people are good at words of encouragement and all this stuff. It's actually quite true. I'm not good with recognition myself. I don't come across as warm. I often feel guilty about that. And then I try to follow up with people one-on-one because it's easier for me to do that later. But of course, I wish I could do that in the moment more often. You know, I often feel like, "Uh, oh, I'm being weirdly introverted on this trip or on this bus ride or in this group." And then, later on, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, it was just doing something on my phone that I had to get done. Wanted to follow up personally." I'm not as great with that myself. So I get it. I don't think there's anything really wrong with the way you're handling this. If you feel these pangs of guilt, follow up with the people you spoke with privately and thank them. I think that leaves just the right kind of impression without putting you on the spot and trying to turn you into some extrovert that's really good at being fake in front of other people and when it's not your nature. I totally get this. 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:29:28] Yeah. So here's the thing. I have a little bit of a different read on this person. I think -- first of all, life is about showing and telling. I might argue that showing your appreciation is more important than just talking about it. Because like you can be the guy around the office who says every nice thing in the most perfect voice and articulates flattery beautifully, but if you're not actually backing that up with actions that mean anything, then you're just the guy who talks. So I would say the fact that you take on people's tasks and remember what candy they like is actually really meaningful and all else being equal, it will mean more than you saying nice things. Words are just words. Anyone can say them, but actions are real. That's it. If you only show and don't tell, then your actions might not have their full impact.

[00:30:10] Like they might come across as a little random or a little hard to understand. For example, if you just got candy from somebody who never told you why he appreciates you, then you might just be like, "Why is he giving me chocolate right now?" Or your actions might feel a little distant or unemotional, like, "Oh, he just wants to do my work for me, I guess." There's a reason human beings like to hear nice things: because words actually do matter if they're backed up by actions that honor those words. So I would definitely invest in the skill and practice it in small ways first. I love Jordan's idea of doing it one-on-one because I think that's a little bit less intimidating. I would go a little bit further and say make this a little bit of an exercise for yourself when you talk to people about -- whatever it is, if you're trying to explain to them why you're grateful for them or what you appreciate, or you're trying to thank them for something they did, tell them what you like, what you admire, why you admire it. When you thank somebody, don't just thank them broadly, but thank them specifically. Mention what you specifically appreciated, why it moved you, why it was what you needed, what you did with it.

[00:31:08] Consider doing that by email, maybe at first, if that's a little bit easier for you, sometimes public appreciation can be a little intimidating and it can actually mean more and it will last longer if it's in print. So you're absolutely right. This is about vulnerability to some degree. My question for you is: what's the fear there? Like, what's going on beneath that? Are you concerned about coming across as weak? Are you concerned that expressing yourself in front of other people will be awkward or strange? Or is it feeling like they won't reciprocate the appreciation? Is it just a lack of experience verbalizing yourself? I mean, if you work on those questions, a lot of this will automatically resolve. I would use it as an opportunity to dig a little bit deeper into yourself and to connect more authentically with other people. And I think then, expressing your gratitude openly or connecting with the people in your life or at the office will probably seem easy in comparison. I love that you're asking this question. We need more of that kind of thoughtfulness in the world right now. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:00] All right, what's next? 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:32:01] Hey guys, I'm a 23-year-old who has been working as a hairstylist for five years. I got into one of the best salons in the area and climbed the ladder. After about five years, I realized it was time to move on and seek growth elsewhere, leaving financial comfort and professional security behind. I ventured into the city and am now at the best salon there with great future financial potential and a better lifestyle. But I had to take a step down as an apprentice and further develop my skill under my mentor. Problem is I've been here for four months and I'm no longer thriving at work, which is really hard. My mentor is not a mentor at all and has literally, and honestly, told me to my face that he just doesn't have the time to mentor me. So most of my learning is on my own, though I definitely learn best interacting and engaging with others. Furthermore, my new coworkers are not warm and fuzzy, to say the least, and I sort of feel like I don't fit in. This new place honestly has me second-guessing my passion and I'm wondering if I should go back to college and find something else. I know I'm capable of great things and maybe I should be somewhere where I will thrive. What is your advice? Signed, Looking for a Trim.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:07] So I'm a little confused here by this one. Do you not like being a hairstylist, or do you not like the place where you work right now? So if you don't like the hair industry, retrain, do something else. But if you don't like where you are right now, then I would suggest going to another place with a better cultural fit. Because it's a little confusing, right? Gabe, it's kind of like, "I don't like this, this place has me second-guessing my passion," but it's also, "This place has me second-guessing my passion." I can imagine that if I got a job working and doing a show and I was on like, Vice, I'd be like, "This is so fun. And this is so cool." And then if I got a job working at some other place, I might be like, "This is terrible. I don't like anyone here. You know, everyone's really annoying and bugging me about stuff. This isn't a good cultural fit." Often the best places in town, quote-unquote, are crappy places to work because everyone is stressed beyond belief. The place is run poorly, or it has a bad culture or all of the above. This isn't just true for hair salons. It's true for law firms, hospitals, anywhere. Are there consulting firms, Gabe, that have like the sweatshop rep? There are definitely law firms where they go, "Yeah, you're going to make an additional 20, 30 grand a year, but you will work a hundred hours a week and it will be awful. And you will get yelled at, and people are going to throw books at you when you walk into the partner's office because they hate their lives too." You know, we have that. It's Skadden Arps actually is the name of that firm. I don't know if they're still like that.

[00:34:28] Funny story. My friend Jason Flom, he's been on the show, his dad started that law firm. It used to be Skadden, Arps, and Flom and they dropped his name because I guess it wasn't -- back in the day, believe it or not, you didn't put Jewish names on law firms because it was considered a little bad branding. Now, I think they're all Jewish names if I had to guess. But there's got to be consulting firms that had that rep too, like, "Oh, work at Deloitte, if you want to have a growth experience and dah, dah, dah, but work it maybe McKinsey if you want to get your ass kicked." 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:34:55] Yeah, probably. I mean, I don't know what the reputations of the firms are now, but yes, there are definitely places that are more workhorsey than others.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:01] So I would perhaps just bounce out of this salon. I mean, if you've been there for four months, which is a while, it's not like you're a month in and you want to leave, but you're four months in and people are not helpful. They're not friendly. It's time to find another place to train, grow, and learn it. It sounds like they don't necessarily want to be there, or they're not open to you being there. Thus, it doesn't matter if this is the Harvard of hair salons. If you're not learning anything, go somewhere where you will learn something. You probably need to work somewhere else with a good culture and start learning once again. If you go to a new place, you find that you're learning once again, you have a good culture, and you still don't really like styling hair anymore, then maybe it's time to find another industry. But you should not let a bad workplace trick you into thinking that you don't like the work when really you just don't like the environment in which you work. 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:35:53] Totally agree. You need to distinguish the place you're in now from how you feel about your passion. I don't think you would have followed hair to this new city and to this new place if you didn't really care about it. So there's no need to let this place, which sounds kind of like -- I don't know. I mean, it could either suck or it's just not a fit for you specifically, and that happens. That's okay. It's like a whole personality dimension to finding the right fit. And if it's not a right fit for whatever reason, it's okay to move on. If you let a bad workplace infect your dream career, then you'll make a decision you'll regret. There are tons of salons around the world -- maybe not open right this moment, although I hear they're reopening and will be opening up again soon -- but you sound really driven and very confident and also humble in the best sense of the term. Like you were down to take a step back in order to learn and I don't think you would feel that way if you didn't really care about hair. If you were just a dilettante and you were just like, "Oh, this could be a thing I could do," you wouldn't be willing to make that investment. So yes, go somewhere you will thrive. It's just not a fit. That is okay. Move on.

Peter Oldring: [00:36:58] This is The Jordan Harbinger Show and it is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:03] This episode is sponsored in part by Manscaped. Are you familiar with Manscaped Peter? 

Peter Oldring: [00:37:07] Very familiar! Can go into deep detail. Not sure if it's necessary, but I can. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:12] The reopening is right around the corner. There's a chance no one's seen your balls in a few months. You know? 

Peter Oldring: [00:37:17] My goodness. I didn't know where you were going with, "There's a reopening right around the corner." 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:21] Yeah. Now, would you show up to the first day of school without a haircut? That's what I'm asking you.

Peter Oldring: [00:37:26] Aha, right, no. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:26] They've got the Lawn Mower 3.0. Are you--?

Peter Oldring: [00:37:29] I believe I have the 2.0, so I'm one generation back, but I'll tell you what: it still does a master's job down there.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:36] You got to get the ceramic blade and SkinSafe technology of the 3.0 because your snags -- you know what I'm saying -- are going to get reduced.

Peter Oldring: [00:37:44] I'll tell you right now, and this is true: I dare you to try to snag yourself. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:47] Oomph, no.

Peter Oldring: [00:37:48] You really can't. You just can't. It's made in a way where you can't. It's shocking.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:53] It's a game-changer for the groomer. You know, it's got the Crop Preserver and the Crop Reviver, which is an anti-chafing ball deodorant, and a spray-on toner for your huevos.

Peter Oldring: [00:38:05] Well, for places it's so hard to tone in other ways.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:07] That's right. They don't get a lot of sun. It's made with soothing aloe and witch-hazel extract to give them a little boost. Do you remember those days where you'd put stuff down there and then you'd stand in front of the fan, football camp, maybe? Ever do anything like that? Put a little IcyHot down there?

Peter Oldring: [00:38:22] Close your eyes and think of England.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:25] It was like a challenge. You just lathered them up and you just stood in front of the fan and just stood there gritting your teeth.

Peter Oldring: [00:38:30] Oh, yeah, the light is at the end of the tunnel fellas, treat yo self. You made it through quarantine and get that Lawn Mower 3.0. Get 20 percent off and free shipping with the code JORDAN at manscaped.com. That's 20 percent off with free shipping at manscaped.com. Use code JORDAN and your first date/you know, your zipper-fly will thank you. 

[00:38:50] This episode is also sponsored by Progressive Insurance. 

Peter Oldring: [00:38:54] Fun fact: Progressive customers qualify for an average of six discounts when they sign up for Progressive auto insurance discounts for things like enrolling in automatic payments, ensuring more than one car, going paperless, and of course, being a safe driver. Plus customers who bundle their auto with home or add renter's insurance save an average of 12 percent on their auto. There are so many ways to save when you switch, and once you are a customer with Progressive, you get unmatched claim service with 24/7 support online or by phone. It's no wonder why more than 20 million drivers trust Progressive, and why they've recently climbed to the third-largest auto insurer in the country. Get a quote online at progressive.com in as little as five minutes and see how much you could be saving. Auto insurance from Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, home and renter's insurance not available in all states, provided in service by affiliated and third-party insurers. Discounts vary and are not available in all states and situations.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:49] This episode is also sponsored in part by Better Help. All right, I understand not wanting to find a therapist. It's time-consuming, tedious. Even if you find someone you like, you got to hope their office is close to where you live. You got to cross your fingers they got convenient parking. Don't forget to get validated.

Peter Oldring: [00:40:04] And well, nowadays, too -- I mean, is their office even open. Doesn't, you know --

Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:07] Right, limited hours. So you can sit in a waiting room with a bunch of other people. You don't want to be around. It's already bad enough. These concerns don't exist anymore with Better Help, which is an online counseling service to find a professional therapist. You can communicate with them from literally wherever you are from your parking spot on your couch. Better Help has 3,000-plus therapists in 50 states and all over the world. They're trained to approach every possible problem. You can have your sessions the way you like either through a video chat, phone call, text, live chat. We use apps to order food. Now you've got an app for emotional support. Why not go at your own pace, do it your own way? Better Help makes it easy for us to finally make the moves in our life that we've been procrastinating on. Therapy is always one of those. It's always the last priority. The sessions are secure, confidential, convenient, and affordable, especially for Jordan Harbinger Show listeners. 

Peter Oldring: [00:40:52] That is right. The Jordan Harbinger Show listeners get 10 percent off the first month with discount code JORDAN. Go to betterhelp.com/jordan. Fill out the questionnaire to help them find the right counselor for you and get started. betterhealth.com/jordan. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:08] Stay tuned after the show, we've got a trailer of our interview with Cesar Millan, The Dog Whisperer. Cesar tells us how he went from impoverished Sinaloan kid to homeless immigrant to world-famous dog training guru. We'll also learn how to communicate better with animals by understanding the priority of their senses compared to our own. This and more after the cut. So stay with us for that. 

Peter Oldring: [00:41:28] Thank you for listening and supporting this show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us going. To learn more and to get links to all the great discounts you just heard so that you can check out those amazing sponsors for yourself, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. And don't forget that worksheet for today's episode. The link is in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com/podcast [ed. note: Feedback Friday episodes don't include worksheets]. And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:55] All right, next question. 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:41:57] Hey J Team, long-time listener, first-time caller. I recently joined an incredibly well-known, rapidly growing startup; we're a pre-IPO unicorn valued over a billion dollars. And it's been an amazing experience thus far. We're hiring for a ton of roles right now, and with some recent changes to the economy and high-profile mass layoffs like Uber and WeWork, I've had a lot of former colleagues, peers, and friends of friends reaching out to me, asking for a referral. I'm generally happy to take calls and talk with people for a bit to see where they're at, tell them about the company, and see if they would be a good fit. Most of these people are great and I'd look forward to working together. Plus I have a lot of faith in our recruiting process, so I'm not worried about letting a bad egg in. What I'm a little on the fence about is that there are some folks I'm not super stoked about. They aren't bad people per se, but they just aren't a great fit or don't have the level of experience or caliber we're looking for. I'll take a call with these people, chat with them for a few minutes, and then they ask for a referral and I say, "Send me your resume," making no explicit promises to refer them. I feel like I have a few options here. Submit them for a referral and leave a less-than-great comment to the recruiter. The upside is it outsources the disappointment to our recruiting team and maybe the hiring team likes them. The downside is it potentially damages my reputation with recruiting and creates more work for them -- that kind of thing. Second option, don't submit them for a referral and just pretend like nothing happened. The upside there is it's easy to tell a white lie that they weren't a good fit. The downside, maybe lying, there's maybe a chance it gets back to them that nobody in recruiting even saw their info or that I never submitted a referral, which honestly is an egg on my face. Option number three is don't submit them and give them the hard, honest feedback directly about why I'm not submitting them. The upside here is that it gives them the opportunity to grow and it lives both my and my company's values of transparency and radical candor. The downside, of course, it might be uncomfortable for me or for them. My sense is that number two is the safest option. Number two being don't submit them for a referral and just pretend like nothing happened. I can just pretend like I submitted it and the recruiting team didn't reach out. But what I want to do is number three, which is to write them an email back that basically says, "Hey, I chatted briefly with the hiring manager about you and we agreed this might not be the best fit right now. We'll be hiring more in the future, so here are some things I would work on if you wanted to apply again later." What I like about this is it gives them the opportunity to work on things and grow, and it's an easy way to get rid of the bad/lazy people, which frankly, a lot of people are. I'm curious to hear your thoughts and advice here, so I am all ears. Thank you so much for everything you do. I'm kicking myself for not starting Six-Minute Networking sooner as it's been great to reconnect with folks and reach out to others I want to deepen my connection with. I recommend the podcast to everyone and I'm so happy and proud of how well you weather the transition from the previous podcast. Keep up the great work and stay safe in these crazy times. Sincerely, Hiring Hang-ups. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:46] Well, I like the way you think here, man. This is a well-articulated thought process. So to reiterate one, you submit them for a referral and you leave, you tell the recruiter, "Hey, you know, I'm submitting this guy. I'm not super crazy about him, but here you go." Or two, you don't submit them and you go, "Yeah, I guess we just never heard back. I guess you weren't really a good fit. Sorry about that." Or you don't submit them and then you give them actual feedback about why you are not going to submit them. Now, I love how he says, what I want to do is number two, because that's the easiest don't submit. And then say like, "Guess you weren't a good fit. Sorry about that." But you're right, three is definitely the best thing that you can do. He's correct. Submitting people who aren't a good fit to recruiting is not a great idea because recruiting will go, "Ugh, this is the guy that submits all his dumb friends. And they're always a waste of time." Then when you submit somebody that is a good fit, it might even be a strike against them. And anytime you bring up anything to recruiting, they're going to be like, "Oh, not this guy again, not this yutz." So you've got to be careful about that. That said, if you're on the fence, you can submit them and just leave it to recruiting.

[00:45:48] This is their job. You're not really wasting their time. If you yourself aren't totally sure about that person, if you are sure the person is not a fit, then you're right. The easy way out of this is to not submit them. Pretend it got lost. It's low risk for you, but it's not totally honest, and worse, it doesn't allow the person to grow at all because they never find out how to make themselves more competitive. What would you want to happen if you were in their shoes? I would do number three, which is, of course, not submit them and tell them why you are not going to submit them. Yes. It might be uncomfortable for you or for them, or for both of you. And some folks might have a negative reaction. What it will do though, is give you a chance to keep in touch with these people and add them to your network in a stronger way. They will also trust you because you told them something that was risky for you. If you're honest with them and help them identify holes or weaknesses in their skills or resume, not only do you get to help them avoid taking a job that might not be successful for them, but you also told them something that most people would never have the guts to say to their face. And they will be a stronger candidate for the next 20 years for having heard that. If you're upfront about this, reasonable people should really appreciate it. 

[00:47:03] When I was in college, I had a professor or an assistant -- what do you call it? Like an associate, I guess, TA. Sort of like a junior level, not quite a professor yet. He told me he'd give me a letter of recommendation. He did and then I asked him again and he gave me another one. And then I asked him again and he goes, "Hey, you know, real talk. I had you for like, three Russian classes. So I'm going to give you this letter. You won't come up short, but the purpose of letters of recommendation is so that you get really strong letters from people that you've been working with for a while. And then whoever's reading them says, 'Oh, okay, this person has developed good relationships with this teacher or that professor. And they're good in this field.' So again, you won't come up short on your number of letters of recommendation, but you should probably find somebody who you've worked with more." And I remember going, "Oh, I had no idea what letters of recommendation were for," because I'm 19 and I'm in college. And these are just another dumb requirement hoop that I have to jump through. It had never occurred to me to even think about why letters of recommendation were important. And candidly, now that I'm older, I have a sneaking suspicion that letters of recommendation are something that nobody even reads half the time. They just look at it and go, "Okay. All right. He's got his three letters of recommendation. Check that box off the application and move on with my life." But he eventually didn't need to write me letters of recommendation because I did focus on building relationships in the future with other professors for when this requirement popped up again. And those relationships with other faculty and professors led to real opportunities, not just me going, "Oh, who's the guy that I go to get a letter of recommendation when I need a letter of recommendation? Oh, yeah, this guy." 

[00:48:41] I know it's uncomfortable, but being truthful, telling people why you won't do something for them, this is exactly the reason why taking a bit of personal risk builds trust. Because it is risky, therefore it is so rare, so when somebody says something that is almost against their own interest because it's going to be awkward, it's going to be a troublesome conversation, a tough conversation, that's what builds trust and deepens your relationship. Also once you have this conversation, you can pop back into their inbox every 90, 120 days, 180 days, whatever, or so use something like connectionfox.com, which by the way, I just made, I didn't make it. Somebody who works with me made this. If you use Contactually and if you use Airtable -- I guess this is my awkward way of announcing it right now. If you use Contactually or Airtable for a CRM or for connections, go to connectionfox.com. We just made this; it's free right now. It does more than Airtable does, and it's, again, free instead of 80 bucks a month or whatever Contactually is. You put your contacts in there. It'll remind you within a certain time period, whatever you program, to talk with these people, to reengage them, you can mark your interactions in there. You can tag people, you know, dog lover, tennis partner, this kind of thing in there. You can put notes in your conversations. So connectionfox.com. We'll link it in the show notes. But anyway, put them in there every 90, 120 days, circle back with them. That way they know you're not just blowing them off. It's not like, "Oh, I asked Gabe to do this job thing for me. And then he said, 'No,' because your resume is not strong enough because you don't have any sales experience. That guy's a jerk."

[00:50:15] If you keep popping into their inbox, they'll realize, "Oh, not only did you care enough, to be honest with me. But you care enough to follow up. So this was in my best interest and I really appreciate that." You're actually invested in their future success. So this will deepen your relationship. They'll be a little bummed at first, but I think most people will go, "Okay. There's a reason for this." You really can highlight your honesty and integrity and be better for them long-term. It's kind of like parenting. Why don't we let our kids do whatever the hell they want? Because we want them to grow into the right kind of person who gets what they want through hard work and integrity. Not just because they're a little sh*t, right? So this is the kind of thing that's going to deepen your level of trust and your relationship with somebody else. Gabe, anything to add? 

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:51:00] No, I totally agree if you deliver this right, you'll not only be doing these candidates a great service, but you'll be doing right by you and the company, and you'll be building these relationships. My only recommendation is to do it kindly, you know, and humbly like, which I think you would do. Like, "I really want you to know why it's not a fit and what you could do to improve. I know that's what I would want to hear if I were in your shoes. So here are the things you could do and let's revisit it in three or six months," that sort of thing. It's almost like a little litmus test of who actually has the chops and like the dedication to actually become the candidate they want to become. Like, if you offer somebody meaningful feedback on how they could improve, and then you circle back with them, if they have totally ignored you or whatever, then like they're not really serious about getting a job there if that's what it takes -- or just being good professionals in general. But if they do and you stay in touch with them, then you know that you developing a relationship with somebody who takes themselves seriously and takes your advice seriously, and actually wants to put in the work, which I think is great.

[00:51:53] So I love your thoughtfulness about this. You sound very smart and level-headed and interested in connecting with people authentically, which most people don't want to do surprisingly. So I would use your knowledge to build those relationships and help the people around you. And if you do that, you can't really go wrong.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:52:08] I thought we'd end the show today with a segment from author, Don Moore, author of Perfectly Confident. We'll discuss how we're thinking about confidence wrong and thinking in probability distributions, which tends to be more accurate. So here we go: a little segment to wrap the show this week with Don Moore.

[00:52:24] Don. Thanks for coming on for the segment here. 

Don Moore: [00:52:26] Pleasure. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:52:26] When I read this, you had me at, "You're probably thinking about confidence wrong," because as somebody who started a business decades ago about how to be more confident -- you know, confidence is a hot topic, no matter what sort of shade of the definition you're using. And when I read what you had written me, it sounded like a nice, interesting, and unique-ish take on Thinking in Bets from Annie Duke. 

Don Moore: [00:52:51] Yeah, I love Thinking in Bets. Annie Duke is brilliant. One of the things I love about her message is the encouragement to challenge yourself and others by asking, "Want to bet? How serious are you? How confident are you? Are you ready to put money on that?" And that sort of discipline is enormously useful for forcing you to think through how sure you are and helping you get closer to the truth, especially if you do put stakes on it and keep track and keep score.

]Jordan Harbinger: [00:53:22] So why do we do this? Is it because humans usually make binary decisions, right? Like this is either good or bad, or I'm sure I'm not sure, or the probability is definitely or never. 

Don Moore: [00:53:32] We get used to thinking in black and white terms and making predictions about the future as if we can anticipate what's going to happen with perfect confidence. That's just confusing -- the future is fundamentally uncertain. and thinking about it as a probability distribution is so helpful for getting clarity in lots of things, including how to calibrate your confidence in that uncertain future. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:53:58] Well, a lot of people are mixing up correlation with causation. We talk about that a lot, or we think that fooling ourselves into being more confident will actually improve our performance. What's that phrase, like, "Fake it until you make it." And it's like, well, no, now you just have lower levels of qualification on something that might require a higher level of qualification. Now, look, if you're constantly underestimating yourself, that's one thing. But I think for a lot of us, we realize like, okay, this actually is something that requires a lot of confidence or you should be reasonably sure that this is going to work because it's your life savings or the rest of your life in terms of a career or marriage, or like maybe you should think about this harder. This obviously gets us into trouble. 

Don Moore: [00:54:38] Yeah. It's easy to observe the tight association that we see all around us, between confidence and performance, and get confused between correlation and causation. Just because confident people are more likely to win athletic contests and succeed in business and get elected to political office does not mean that their confidence was causal in those outcomes. The evidence suggests that at least as often, it's the underlying ability or strength or advantage that contributes both to people's confidence in their likelihood of prevailing and their ultimate success.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:55:22] Now you said something that got my interest here, that  it's tempting to think that their confidence had a hand in their success. And often I can see myself even getting fooled by that, like, "Wow, look at this person, really confident in their business. Look at this person, really confident in their athletic ability." But what we don't realize is that for everyone who sounds confident, like they knew they were going to do it all along or that they always blew a lot of smoke and they happened to succeed, it's not necessarily one of the ingredients. It can just be a side effect of some people that are successful and that they sound confident.

Don Moore: [00:55:53] That is exactly right. And fooling yourself that way, thinking that it's confidence, their confidence that made them successful, can lead you to want to trick yourself into being more confident. And although there are some circumstances in which more confidence might increase your chance of success, if it gives you the courage, if you had been underconfident and giving yourself a pep talk convinces you that you should enter the competition and then you stand a good chance of winning because you have what it takes, that's obviously a good move. But fooling yourself into being more confident, that's a brittle confidence that puts you at risk of taking bad risks that don't ultimately pay off and convincing yourself that you're going to succeed also runs the risk of undermining that very success if it persuades you that you've got it in the bag and you don't need to do the hard work to prepare. It is the students in my class who are most sure they're going to ace the test and therefore don't think they have to study who are not getting the good grades. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:57:02] Confidence is either a side effect of success or a non-causal relationship, or it actually causes you to be less successful because you were overconfident. That's interesting. So we want to think in probability distributions, and we talked a little bit about that with Annie Duke, of course, saying "I'm 70 percent sure" instead of either, "I'm definitely sure," or "I have no idea." So we want to do that. You suggest keeping these bets, tracking these bets, so that we keep score so that we can learn from them and get better at forecasting from experience. How do we do that? 

Don Moore: [00:57:34] Well, one way is if we actually put money down on a bet with someone who's willing to take the other side. That introduces the interesting wrinkle that we have to ask ourselves, "Oh, who's this other person who's willing to bet against us?" I mean, investors think about this all the time, asking, "If I'm going to sell this stock, who's on the other side of the trade who thinks that it's worth more than I think it is? What do they know that I don't know?" So it's useful to think through that whenever you're placing a bet. But when you do place that bet, you've got a record of what you said you believe. Writing down your forecast, your probability estimates, and then how they come out, is very useful. If you do place a bet, that'll help you track it. But even when you don't place a bet, thinking "Wanna bet?" to yourself, thinking about what you anticipate is likely to happen, and then tracking later, following up with yourself and seeing what actually happened, comparing that to your predictions, is useful because it helps avoid the hindsight bias, which we're all vulnerable to where, when we see the outcome when we see either our success or our failure, we're tempted to think, "Oh, that was inevitable." No, it wasn't. It happened with some probability. Did you get that probability, right? If you have a large enough set to look at, you can get better at calibrating your confidence. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:55] And calibrating confidence is important, right? Because we want to get as close to the truth as we can. We don't want willful self-delusion where we're overconfident. Of course, we also don't want to come across as, "Well I can't do anything. I'm such a schmoe. Why even try?" The underconfidence that plagues most of us I think. We want to get to be reasonably -- would you say accurate level, or realistic level of confidence? Like the one that's closest to our ability level? Is that what we're shooting for? 

Don Moore: [00:59:23] Yeah, that is going to be the most empowering situation for helping you make wise decisions. And I don't want that encouragement -- to be honest with ourselves -- to be taken as a dispiriting message to lower our sights. The truth is, all of us have vast, untapped potential. And as you note, there are lots of circumstances in which we're prone to underconfidence. The imposter syndrome leaves many of us feeling routinely like, "Oh, maybe I don't have what it takes for this" when in fact we do; it's on hard tasks where everybody performs poorly, or everybody is challenged that we're most at risk for suffering the imposter syndrome. 

Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:06] So by way of practicality here, we get serious about forecasting uncertain futures that matter. So we place bets on the future, keep track of the outcomes, keep score, and get better at thinking about uncertainty. Another tip you gave is to consider the opposite. What does this mean? Consider the opposite as in like, "What happens if I fail? What happens if this doesn't go right?" 

Don Moore: [01:00:24] Consider the opposite is the single most general and useful debiasing strategy that psychologists have offered for a number of the cognitive biases that the human minds are vulnerable to. And it's hard. It's an invitation to think why you might be wrong. Think about other perspectives. You're sure that some plan is great. Well, what about your critics? Think about ways of understanding the facts differently, consider different perspectives. Which of your assumptions might not hold up to scrutiny? Explicitly asking yourself why you might be wrong is enormously useful for helping de-bias a lot of the confirmation biases the human minds commit so quickly. 

Jordan Harbinger: [01:01:09] And we talk about these biases all the time. I mean, there's everything from confirmation bias to selection bias to -- well, there are dozens of these. And in fact, I have a deck of cards around here, somewhere that have all these logical fallacies on there that me and everyone else have been great at for the last -- however old we are -- decades of our lives to try and make decisions. And we go, "Oh." You know, 20/20 hindsight after I turned 40 or 35, or whenever I became really painfully aware of these, it was like, "Oh, shoot. Yeah, I do this." And the whole deck of cards is, as you flip them over, you can think of examples where you've engaged in it. It's a little disappointing. It's a little depressing sometimes.

Don Moore: [01:01:45] Roger that.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:01:46] Last, but not least: capitalizing on disagreement. What do you mean by this? Because generally, I think as humans, we like to try to be agreeable. I mean, there are obvious exceptions and there are all those people on the news, they don't seem to have any problem capitalizing on disagreement. How do we make this an advantage? Because I think a lot of us, our common knowledge says, "Look, when we disagree, there's a problem." And it sounds like you don't agree with that necessarily.

Don Moore: [01:02:10] I disagree, Jordan. Disagreement is useful in ways that we fail to appreciate when we regard our critics or those who disagree with us as our enemies to be argued against and defeated. In fact, our information is imperfect. We're prone to bias. We make mistakes and the wisdom of crowds is enormously useful for getting closer to the truth. Listening to our critics, those who have different perspectives from ours, can help us achieve insights that can bolster our arguments, make them stronger, help us achieve insights that otherwise, we would fail to make. And so listening to our critics and trying to understand what they know that we don't. Sometimes their arguments will be weak.

[01:03:01] So your enemy who says "You're ugly and your mother dresses funny," that's not so useful. But the person who says, "Here's the logical argument..." and they're right? Getting that perspective and adjusting your views in light of that, maybe reducing your confidence in the argument that you'd made earlier, or maybe modifying it to make it more robust to the sorts of criticisms and complaints that your critics have leveled against you, well, that'll make your argument stronger and help get your beliefs closer to the truth.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:03:36] Ironically, we kind of have to lower our false confidence, right? Our arrogance in order to be able to take in these inputs from people that disagree with us in order to further lower our confidence, in order to then increase our confidence that we actually have the right answer.

Don Moore: [01:03:51] Indeed. 

Jordan Harbinger: [01:03:52] Thanks to Don Moore. His book is called Perfectly Confident: How to Calibrate Your Decisions Wisely. We'll link to that in the show notes as well. 

[01:03:59] Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. A lot of people thanking us for the Ramit Sethi episode -- that's episode 199 -- and episode 306, BJ Fogg, Tiny Habits. These are really great for changing up your habits and your money. A lot of people have revamped their lifestyle because of that. Thank you, Christina, and Elissa, and Garrett for the notes. I really do appreciate you appreciating us, appreciating other people here on the show.

[01:04:29] So go back and check out the guests, Benjamin Hardy and Chris Hadfield if you haven't yet. If you want to know how we managed to book all these great people and manage relationships, using systems, using tiny habits -- speaking of BJ Fogg -- check out our Six-Minute Networking course, which is free over there on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com/course. Don't do it later. Do it. Now once you need relationships, you're too late to build them. The drills take a few minutes a day. This is consistency. It's a habit. You got to dig the well before you get thirsty. Find it all for free at jordanharbinger.com/course. I'm also on Instagram and Twitter at @JordanHarbinger, you can add me on LinkedIn. It's a great way to engage with me. And the show videos of our interviews are at jordanharbinger.com/youtube. We're going to start filming Feedback Friday as well. So that's going to be there. You can see all the goofiness that we are up to here doing these and letting loose a little bit because we can retake things. There's no billionaires or generals standing in front of us.

[01:05:23] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. Thank you, Gabriel, for your Sage advice and a question curation here. This episode was produced by Jen Harbinger edited by Jase Sanderson, show notes for the episode by Robert Fogarty, additional voiceover by Peter Oldring, music by Evan Viola. Keeps sending in those questions to friday@jordanharbinger.com. Our advice and opinions, and those of our guests are their own. I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. I'm not a psychologist. I'm not a therapist. I have no clinical authority whatsoever. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others, share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with someone who can use the advice we gave here today. We've got lots more in store for 2020, and we're excited to bring it to you in the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen. We'll see you next time.

Cesar Millan: [01:06:18] When I was 10 years old, I told my mom, "Mom, when I grow old, I'm going to be a drug dealer." And she --

Jordan Harbinger: [01:06:24] Oh, wow, she slapped you.

Cesar Millan: [01:06:25] Slapped me across the face and said, "If you want to kill me, that's what you do." And when I was 13 years old, I told my mom, "Mom, you think I'd be the best doctor in the world." She turned around and she said, "You can be whatever you want." So I spend Christmas and New Year's at the border trying to jump it.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:06:41] You get this reputation as the guy who can walk 30 dogs.

Cesar Millan: [01:06:45] That was in San Diego.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:06:47] You were kind of this underground guy for a while that could walk all these dogs --

Cesar Millan: [01:06:51] Yeah, in L.A.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:06:52] -- in L.A. with no leash and the gang bangers are hanging out. Like, "There goes the crazy guy with all the dogs. Don't mess with the guy with the dogs." 

Cesar Millan: [01:07:00] My customers were NBA players, NFL players --

Jordan Harbinger: [01:07:04] So you're worried at this point.

Cesar Millan: [01:07:05] -- Nicolas Cage. 

Jordan Harbinger: [01:07:07] Nicolas Cage? 

Cesar Millan: [01:07:07] Nicolas Cage, Vin Diesel.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:07:09] How did they hear about you?

Cesar Millan: [01:07:11] You know, that Mexican guy in the street.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:07:13] You're washing limos and you're like, "Yeah, I want to be on TV, people."

Cesar Millan: [01:07:16] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:07:16] People must've been like, "Okay buddy." 

Cesar Millan: [01:07:19] Most of them. I was first interviewed by the L.A. Times at the end of the conversation, a lady says, "What would you like to do next?" I say, "Well, I would like to have a TV show." So I manifested the TV show way before producers came. And I have no idea. I didn't know that dishonesty part in Hollywood. You better have a good pack of lawyers.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:07:40] For more from Cesar Millan, including how animal behavior is reflective of their human owners. Check out episode 162 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.