218: How to Renegotiate with a Bait-and-Switch Employer | Feedback Friday

Transcript for How to Renegotiate with a Bait-and-Switch Employer | Feedback Friday (Episode 218)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:02] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger and I'm here with producer Jason DeFillippo. Here on the Jordan Harbinger show, we love having conversations with our guests and this week we had Chelsea Handler talking about living a life in the public eye, chasing money and fame, and of course her pivot to activism and causes other than herself. We also had Matt Schrier who got kidnapped by Al Qaeda in Syria and escaped. Of course, he escaped. Otherwise, we wouldn't have been able to do the show. I also read every so often on the blog and the latest post is about how to deliver bad news in a way that doesn't end up with you damaging your relationship, might even strengthen your relationships. So make sure you've had a look and a listen to all of that. The articles are at jordanharbinger.com/articles and the podcast. Well, you know where those are cause you're listening right now.

[00:00:47] Of course, our primary mission is to pass along our guests’ insights and our experiences and insights along to you. We love having those conversations directly with you. And that's what we do today and every Friday here on Feedback Friday. You can always reach us at Friday@jordanharbinger.com. For me, I'm on the East Coast. I love it out here. People, people get stuff done. That's what I like about the East Coast, California, especially LA. I don't live in LA. A lot of you think I do. I live up North, but when I go to LA or other parts of California, it's like, “Hey, we should do that.” “Yeah, man, we should,” and then three weeks later, “Hey, we should do that.” “Yeah, we should.” New York, “Hey, what are you doing right now?” “Nothing.” “You want to come uptown and get a drink?” “Sure.” “Okay, great. I'll meet you at 8:57,” and they're actually there. I love that about the East Coast. It's just no BS. “What do you think of this?” “I hate it.” Out in the West Coast. “What do you think of this?” “I don't know. I might've chosen some other different options.” Aka I hate it. I don't know. I'm more of an East Coast. I jive more with the East Coast folks and baby is coming in five weeks, so I don’t know what's going to happen there, Jason.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:51] I'll tell you what though. That kid better not be born on my birthday because he's encroaching on my time.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:56] Oh really? That's the one day a year where it's all about you and you're worried about that.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:59] Hell yeah. I've got very few things left in my personal life. My birthday is my day, dammit.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:05] That's true. What day is that? When's your birthday?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:07] August 5^th.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:08] August 5th. Mark your calendars people. It's coming up. It's coming up. All right, Jason, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:15] Good morning, Jordan, Jen, and Jason. My dad and brother hate my fiancee. We aren't really that close. When I was 10, I went to live with my mom and the divorce while my dad and my brother lived together. They're very negative people and have some mental health problems. My fiancee and I have made the effort to spend time with them, traveled the four hours to where they live, to see them and cook them dinner, et cetera, but they still don't like her. The current problem is that I didn't pick, my brother is a groomsman in my wedding. He sent me a message after we caught up at Easter calling my fiancee borderline effing retarded with a low IQ.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:47] Wow. What a Dick head. Wow.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:50] Yeah. Nice family.

[00:02:51] I spoke to him about it on the phone and he said he wasn't sorry and it was just how he felt. Two months later I tried sending him unrelated messages with no response. Then I called to discuss things last week asking how we could peacefully move forward. This phone call ended with him calling me a mother-effing little C-word and a stupid little boy and then he threatened me with physical violence.

[00:03:11] Nice, nice kid.

[00:03:13] I rang my dad who was unapologetic and said my brother would apologize in his own time and that my fiancee and I just need to accept him for who he is. My question is, can I fix them and when do you know it's time to cut a family member out of your life? Kind regards, Done with Drama.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:30] Wow. Okay. So this is not a friendly disagreement. There's not a lot of classy behavior here. Shish whenever we're dealing with a family member who's being horrible, I would say first ask, would I put up with this from a friend who was not family? And if the answer is no, then ask what can I do about this? And in this case, you tried to hash it out and they threw the monkey onto your back once again telling you, “Oh, it's just the way he is.” Well, in a way your dad is right. That's just the way he is. And you probably have to accept that he won't change. What you don't have to accept his abuse from your brother who sounds just kind of like a jerk, really? He's just beyond repair. Who cares? I mean, look, they're family. I get it. You don't have to accept abuse from anyone, whether they're family or not, especially if that abuse is towards you, towards someone you love, someone you live with, someone you're marrying. You are not ever required to put up with abuse from anyone. I don't care if they're your sibling, I don't care if they're your parent. You do not owe people your emotional health. You do not owe people your sanity ever and I know you feel bad about limiting contact with your brother and/or your dad because of their family. That said, do these people make you happier? Do they make you a better person? Do they improve your relationships with other people and with yourself? Would they be helpful to you if you needed them? That's a little bit of a different question. Would they actually help you if you needed them? I don't mean, “Hey, can I sleep on your couch today?” I mean if you had a real problem, would they be helpful or would they just start rubbing it in your face? “I told you she was retarded.” Do you have other friends and family that would do this for you instead? Is the next question after that, would you rather, if you ran into a bind, would you call a friend or would you call your brother? I have a feeling if I had a brother like this, I would just call a friend instead. As a person with some crazy extended family who isn't much better than what you're facing here, I say friends are the family that you get to choose.

[00:05:26] There's never any reason to try and change people like this. One, you can't. Two, even if you could, the amount of effort would be so enormous as to outweigh any potential benefit to anyone involved in this process. I mean, yeah, you could dedicate the next five years of your life, handholding an unwilling participant into becoming a tolerable human, but why would you do that? It's not your problem. It's not where your responsibility. If your brother wants to stop being a miserable a-hole that is on him, you don't owe him a spot in your closed circles. You certainly don't owe him a spot at your wedding. People there should be happy for you, not tearing you down and tearing the bride down that day is about you and it's about supporting you. It's not about your brother's ridiculous lack of tact, lack of manners, and frankly just lack of self-esteem, obviously. He needs to handle that crap on his own time. I'm not only would I not put them in your wedding party, but I would also seat them with each other if you invite them. I don't know, man, look, you do what you do. If somebody was this much of a jerk, I don't even know if I'd extend the invitation. Now, that might be more drama than it's worth. Because then, “Why didn't you invite me to the wedding?” Then you're paying for that for the next 40 years. But I would see them at a table with each other and anybody else that you were forced to invite from that side of the family and marginalize their ability to screw up the day for everybody who actually wants to be there and is respectful. You know, your dad doesn't seem to get it. Jason, I don't know how you feel about this, but if I had a brother like that, I think any normal dad would say, “Your brother is a terrible person and if you can't behave himself, he can't go to the wedding.” I don't think he'd go, ”Well, you have to put up with all of his bullshit because he's your brother and I don't care if he's a terrible person who hates your wife.” It's ridiculous. This guy seems like he needs a good ass-kicking and you know, I never recommend stuff like that. It sounds like this guy's just a real class a jerk.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:07:28] If he would have said that about my fiancee, he had got a punch in the throat and kicked out of the family and I'd never speak to him again.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:34] I mean, look, people say stuff that is bad or that they don't mean that when they're heated, but he just sounds like he's--this is the type of guy--here's how I picture it. He's the type of guy who says all kinds of rude, terrible things. And then when somebody goes, “Hey, that wasn't very nice.” He goes, “Oh, whatever snowflake, you're so easily offended.” And then you say something like, “Hey man, if you're going to be a jerk, you can't come to the family party.” And he goes, “I can't believe it. Everyone's mistreating me. I'm the victim here.” This is exactly the type of person that this sounds like. Just an insufferable a-hole with no friends and nobody that will put up with him all by his own making. But yet everything is always someone else's fault. I can't stand people like this. I don't, I don't think you should have to, especially at your wedding,

Jason DeFillippo: [00:08:20] Especially since you're also starting your new family and do you really want to have that black cloud hanging over it. Is it fair to your fiancee and to the family on her side that's going to be there to have somebody that has this toxic of a personality there? You have to kind of weigh the good with the bad. I personally would lose that invite or like Jordan said, sit them at their own table and I would make at the kid's table. Give him a little short table because if they're going to act like children, they should be seated like children.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:50] All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:08:52] Hello, Triple J. I'm 23 years old and the dating life for my just keeps getting harder and harder. Not all, but most of the girls I meet just aren't the relationship type. They all just want to have fun and be free and wild. There's nothing wrong with that as I personally feel that's how you should spend your 20s. With that being said, I recently met a woman who I'm very attracted to physically, mentally, and spiritually. She's gorgeous, outgoing, funny, and just an awesome person to be around. We've only known each other for a short period of time, but it feels like we were made for each other. The thing is that she's 17 years older than I am. Perfect situation of age is just a number. What do I do? I love spending time with her and would like to see where things could go, but I'm also aware that the age difference could be an issue. Thank you so much. The Latin Lover.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:36] Well, we seem smitten, don't we? I'm personally fine with this. She's 40, you’re 23 that's a huge difference. So let me ask you this. Is she also into you? If so, I say go for it. I mean that might be a dumb question. It seems like she's obviously into him but go for it. You're going to learn a lot about relationships and life from a woman that age I think. What I would make sure of is that she's not looking for you to step outside what you consider to be reasonable limits in terms of your role with her. For example, if she wants to go out, have fun, et cetera, that's great, but if she's looking to have kids immediately, I'd warn you strongly against getting into that. I'd also be sure that you don't want kids with her because right now you're probably by any measure too young to have kids and by the time you're old enough she will be too old or borderline too old to have kids. If she's 40 now and you're 23 you're going to miss that window most likely. So make sure that you're both on the same page there to avoid any heartache or mismatched expectations. In the end, the age thing will almost certainly be an issue at some point. And that doesn't mean you can't enjoy the relationship in the meantime and handle all that later on. You're in a great place to grow a lot with this woman helping you along the way and I think you're in for quite a ride. Jason, you seem like the kind of guy who's dated a woman who's older by a fair margin. Is that fair?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:02] In my youth I have, and I got to say I'm jealous because the way that that age group lines up for him, they're both in their prime, so he's going to have fun. That's all I'm going to say. He's going to have a lot of fun.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:19] This is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:23] This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help. Better Help, man. This one is a hit with you guys. I love the fact that you all are using this. This is online counseling with licensed professional counselors who are specialized in various issues, so depression, stress, anxiety, relationships, sleeping, trauma, anger, family stuff, aka everything we see on Feedback Friday and you all have been using this in spades. They have a professional counselor for you. It's a safe and private online environment. Anything you share is confidential. It's really convenient because you can get help at your own time, at your own pace. You don't have to drive across town and find parking. You can schedule a secure video or phone sessions. They've got chat and text with your therapist. It's kind of like talking to a friend. You don't have to freaking sit in the waiting room with a bunch of people. If you're not happy with your counselor, you can request a new one at any time and there's no charge for that as well. It's a really affordable option and Jordan Harbinger Show listeners get 10 percent off the first month with the discount code JORDAN. So, go to betterhelp.com/jordan. That's betterhelp.com/jordan. There's a little questionnaire there so you can get what you need and then he can get some real counseling and it's about time. Trust me, this is a sanity saver. Therapy is no longer an option. I feel like it's a mandatory thing to stay sane in this day and age. Don't let your problem or your little issue turn into a real big deal over time. Get some betterhelp.com/jordan and handle your -ish.

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[00:14:10] Thank you for listening and supporting the show. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts from our amazing sponsors and to help keep the show going, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals and if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review in iTunes or your podcast player of choice. It really helps us out and helps build the show family. If you want some tips on how to do that, head on over to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Now let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:37] All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:38] Jordan, I'm a longtime listener and loved the new show. I started putting into practice the networking and the follow-up practices you discuss over two years ago and it landed me the job I wanted in a transit system IT department. This job came with higher pay, amazing time, better insurance for my family of seven but much less vacation and personal days. The practice not policy at this company was sick time was not counted against your actual included sick time. The practice was if you need it, take it and don't abuse it. I didn't abuse it. I maybe took three days for myself this year they stopped this practice after it being in place for 45 years. Today I didn't negotiate sick time at the time of my offer because it didn't seem needed. There wasn't personal time included because of the sick time practice. Now due to the change of practice to accumulate personal days you need to accumulate sick time by hours work monthly and it takes nearly five years of never missing a day to get personal days. Being a foster and adoptive parent, the flexibility of sick time was a benefit that moved the decision needle for this job. I feel bait and switched. It's not completely worth leaving the job for but I'm just unsure how to engage leadership effectively. Once you're in a job in the conditions or non-policy practices change, what would you do? Do I start trying to gather other offers? I've only been in this position for nine months and congrats on the baby. Thank you for doing what you do. Best regards, No Sick Days Makes Me Sick.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:02] The solution here, unfortunately, is to start looking for another job immediately. You don't have to leave immediately and if people ask why you might leave and come to their company after just nine months, you can tell them this exact bait and switch reason. You can say that you signed up, the policy was this way, they offered you this and this and this and now they're not honoring it and your mistake was not getting this certain thing in writing. And I think a lot of people would understand that. You have to frame it in a way though that doesn't sound like you were trying to take advantage of some policy and now they've closed the loophole. So you tell them, I haven't missed much work if I've not missed any work and they don't think you're going to try and take tons of time off all the time. Because I would worry if someone came to me and said, “Yeah I felt bait and switch by their vacation policy because we used to have unlimited policy and now we have to accumulate it.” I'd be like, “Well, how much time off is this guy really planning to take where he's leaving the job because of that.” So you're going to have to balance that. But getting another offer will help you leverage things with your current boss because if your current boss is tough cookies, we don't really care about you. You can say, “Well I have another offer and I'm thinking I'm just going to go to that.” Then they can say, ”Ooh, okay, well you did kind of get screwed on this. Maybe we'll give you five, six days sick days or eight, six days or whatever it needs to be to sort of balance you out.” Because it costs them money and is a huge headache to replace and then train your replacement. I mean it's going to be annoying for them. So there's value in that. You're not just asking them for a favor, you're asking them to honor a deal they already made and you're saving them a headache by not leaving. So they should be smart enough to recognize this. However, since it's a public transit system, it might be a little more bureaucratic than a regular company. And I don't know, your mileage might vary on this, so you should definitely tell your boss about this situation. It might be a policy change that's aimed at certain abusers who built the system. Maybe you got an email, I don't know how this was delivered, but maybe it was, “Hey, we're no longer allowing this to go on like that,” and maybe they're gone, “All right, well for everybody who needs this, the problem is Jim and John are taking five days off a month and everybody else's is fine.” Maybe they'll look the other way.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:18:12] The tragedy of the commons.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:14] Yeah, the tragedy of the commons. Exactly, the reason they changed this is not, well, 45 years. It's worked really well, so we needed to change it. The reason it's changing is because a handful of people are screwing everyone else over and they went, well, I guess we can no longer be an honor-based system where everybody acts reasonably and that's, that's a shame. So if this is a policy that's aimed at certain abusers, perhaps your boss or supervisor, he is able to look the other way for certain things. Maybe they say that you're able to get some other sort of time off if you need it, tell them the exact issue and that it frankly might force you out of the position that you otherwise really like and have this conversation only after you start getting other offers on the table. Just in case they decide you're a troublemaker and they want to marginalize you or make your job harder. Do you have a union? What does the union have to say about all this? What about the other employees? This is a huge material change and for this to come suddenly and overnight, it just doesn't sound right for some reason. I find it hard to believe that nobody else is up in arms about this and nobody else is pushing back on this. Anytime something dramatic like this happens in a job, always, always clarify the policy. Ideally in writing after you have a meeting with your bosses. If they're still being unreasonable, then leave because nothing says we don't give a crap about our employees than changing a material vacation and time off policy like this with zero notice and then zero flexibility on the back end because I'm guessing what happened is everybody else who's been there for five years and is accumulated time off or two years or whatever it was that you need to do, accumulate time off. They probably said, “Okay, this only affects these three people who haven't accumulated any time off. Well, they're too small of a group to do anything about it.” But if you go, “All right, I'm out of here because this is BS. And then they go, “Oh, so we've now got a recruit, hire, interview, train, and pick up the slack for the next six months, a new person if we can even find one because we decided to be unfair to this one guy. Well, now you've got leverage that you probably didn't have before and I think they're afraid you're going to do that. So I would exercise that. I would go get other offers, then go and talk to the boss and say, “What are my options here?” And if their options are go fly a kite and deal with it, then I think you should leave because they're, they're going to keep mistreating you if they're doing it now. if they think they're just going to get away with this, and in fact, they do get away with it, they're just going to keep doing it. There's no reason to say that they're just going to change the policy again on you later and you're just going to have to keep eating lemons. I don't think that's fair. All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:20:52] Hey Jordan. I used to deal with a lot of anxiety, afraid I would stand out like a sore thumb. Now I seem to have the opposite problem. I work in local government in a role that's politically appointed, so I attend a lot of political fundraisers. I also attend a young professional event. Don't worry, they're paid events to try to expand my network beyond the public and political sectors. My problem is I've met many of these people multiple times, but without fail they asked me to remind them of my name or have no recollection of me at all. What can I do to stand out? I don't expect to be greeted with the course of Hey’s and hello’s when I walk in a room, but it would be nice for people to care enough to remember me from meeting to meeting. Sincerely, Definitely Not The Norm.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:32] First of all, thanks for clarifying that the events you go to are paid. That means that they're more likely curated, so someone's been paying attention to the show. What I mean by this in case you're not following along at home, is that the events that are curated and have a higher or better selection, a higher caliber attendee, they're going to be more valuable. And any sort of free networking mixer is usually filled with the unemployed and desperate people who really don't have much that they want to offer, they only have things that they want from other people. So those templates tend to be a waste of time, to say the least. Things that cost money that is more curated, invite-only, that is maybe a little pricey. That's where you get people who go there going, all right, I want to get my money's worth out of this, but I also want to make sure that I'm making connections that last, and not just trying to sell someone in the room. You'll get a little bit of selling in the room just because it costs money and people want ROI, but you'll also get people there who get the point of networking. I can't say the same for free events, which are, are generally scraping the bottom of the barrel. It's like a free dating event. No thanks. Saying networking is very similar.

[00:22:39] It's not about being memorable in the moment. It's the followup and episode 109 of the show is actually all about this. In that episode, we outlined the following components of being memorable. Authenticity. I know that's an overused buzz word, but people with fake facades blend together and are easier to forget because you tend to commoditize yourself when you're just the nice well-mannered person who is wearing a suit at the event. It's like, yeah, you and everybody else vulnerability. For the same reason as above with authenticity, we outlined ways to be vulnerable without seeming schlubby or oversharing and try hard and in episode 109. Generosity, how do you be generous without putting yourself out? It's mostly in the followup and that's a great way to get people to remember you and contrast doing something that in context is unusual but not ridiculous. There's a fine balance here. It's one of the keys to being memorable in the right way. So for example, when I go to events, I don't just hand my business card and say, “Call me.” I might say something like, “Hey, if you want a really good fish dinner, I recommend this place around here,” and people will go, “Oh, okay. Random bit of information, but thanks.” Then when I follow up, I'm like, “I'm the guy who told you about the fish place,” and half the people go, “Oh right, yeah, I remember that.” They're not going to remember, “Hey, I'm the guy that gave you a card.” Yeah, okay. You and 7,000 other people and they were all wearing blazers over a tee shirt and what?

[00:24:02] So we distilled these points into an article. It's at jordanharbinger.com. The article title is called How to Make People Remember You, and I hate to answer a question like this with go listen to episode 109 and read this article, but there's a reason that these topics were something we addressed with literally with hours of content because they're large, they're complex and some easy fix, like wear a funny hat and a light-up belt that will only get you into trouble, especially in professional circles. Further Six-Minute Networking also addresses this as far as effective followup goes, so make sure you're doing Six-Minute Networking drills as well. It's not just what you do after, it's not just what you do during, but there are also things you can do before events where you get contact information for the speakers and the other attendees you find overlap in your hobbies and you reach out beforehand so they are expecting to meet you. There are all kinds of tactics that we teach in Six-Minute Networking that's free and that's at jordanharbinger.com/course. Okay, Jason, what else?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:25:00] Hi guys. My wife left with our three kids to Texas in August of 2018. I signed a notary giving your permission to move with the kids, put them in school and for her to start work in order to be eligible to sponsor me all this while I await my I-130 visa to be approved, which she has paid and filed for. My wife explained that she has to make a certain amount a year to qualify to sponsor me in. Once I get down there, we'd get counseling and work on our marriage. She's originally from Texas and assured me that she would be happier back home and that would give us a better chance at our marriage. Just a few months ago, she told me she will no longer be sponsoring me. In just a month ago, I received in the mail a petition for divorce. My hand actually started to shake. I thought I could trust her. She took advantage of my kindness. I'm currently 40 years old, have a house and work at a factory. I can't stand being without my kids and I'm willing to give up everything in order to be with them. I want to get out of factory life if at all possible and do something else. I've played music before and was at one time a chef. I feel like these could be potential side jobs. A good friend advised me not to open a restaurant, but maybe look at renting something out, maybe seasonal, like a space by the waterfront or at a farmer's market type thing, while at the same time playing in cover bands for income. However, my brother's friend is a wealthy businessman and owns a few fitness gyms. I've been trying to schedule a meeting with him, which he agreed to see if without pay he'd be willing to let me learn the ropes on how to manage a gym. I don't know maybe you'd want to open another gym this time in Texas. How can I provide something valuable to him if I have no experience in his field? It's true. I'm not asking for payment, but I'm asking him to give me a chance in a huge favor since he likes me. I really don't want to work in a factory again. I'm so willing to be trained in some other field of work, but I don't have thousands of dollars to go back to school even. I don't know what program I'd even be interested in doing. All I want is to be in my children's lives. A wise, older man recently told me in order to be a good dad, I have to be happy. If I'm happy, my kids will know it, but if I go down there and leave a good job with a pension and start over, but if moved backwards not forward, he said I'd be better off being happy up here, seeing the kids once in a while rather than moving down there with a crap factory job bitter and unhappy. I agree. I must find work in Texas and be happy that I made such a move. Jordan, is there any advice or help you or others you know could give me? Thank you for your show. Signed, Fighting For My Kids.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:19] Oh man, I'm really sad to hear this situation, blindsided by this divorce, losing your kids. All that stuff is so traumatizing and there's no easy solution to this, but I do have some ideas. First asking someone to make you a manager of a business. That's a long shot man. I think if you're willing to learn the ropes, that's one thing and perhaps you'll even like being a gym manager, but it's a really big long shot to say, “Hey, make me a manager of a gym and then open a location down in Texas and then have my totally green inexperienced management skills go and run that new location for you.” I mean it's just that's not going to happen.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:57] What could possibly go wrong there?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:59] Yeah, it's that is just not going to happen. In my opinion, you being a hard worker and flexible with where you live and what you do is a major asset here. If I were in your shoes and I do not envy you right now, but I want to help, what I would do is go to a trade school. There are so many trades that will allow you to build a life anywhere. One that comes to mind and you don't have to pick this one by any means. It's just an idea is HVAC, H-V-A-C. I called a contact. He's a contractor in Texas and I wanted to float this by him. He recommended HVAC because you can often get certified, you can get your education on the side while you actually work on the job. A lot of HVAC guys, especially in a hot climate like Texas where the economy is good, these guys need help so bad. They'll also teach you a little bit of welding and if you can get welding certification as you work as well, you're going to have so much work that you'll be busy for decades and I mean that literally. There's always, always work for welders and HVAC. The economy's good like I said, and even when it isn't, people are always fixing things in Texas like oil and gas. There's a space industry there. They manufacture a bunch of things there for the defense industry all in Texas and in a ton of other places as well here in the US. But most tradesmen that I know personally in HVAC, roofing, construction, et cetera. They are so busy, they can't start jobs for weeks or even months. They also can't hire to save their lives because people are allergic to manual labor and they don't want to do the work or they hire people. Those people can't show up on time, they're drinking on the job, whatever. If you're willing to do the work, keep your nose clean and get educated in a trade or trades on the side, you're setting yourself up for a pretty good life anywhere in the United States. These guys, they can't hire fast enough. I'm telling you. The jobs, they actually exist, unlike a lot of jobs you might try to get with a college degree, trade jobs, construction jobs in manual labor or skilled labor, I should say, these jobs are plentiful and there's a lot of money in it and they cannot get, there's a shortage of people. I know people that install drywall. They can't get people to come and do it with them because nobody wants to do that. It's not glamorous, but there's plenty of money and there's plenty of work.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:30:12] It's so funny, my neighbor's an HVAC guy, he has a little side business, just him and like six guys. They just bought a new Maserati. I mean they're, they're going out at six o'clock every morning. They're coming back late at night and they just built another house behind their house and they have a shiny new Maserati in the front driveway. So there's definitely a living to be made in HVAC.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:34] There's as much money as you have the capacity to hoover it up in these kinds of industries and there's not a lot of competition. You're not going to be HVAC guy number 7,000 applying for the job. You're going to call and say, “Hey, I'm willing to work. I've got some factory experience that I want to learn HVAC and I plan to go to school for it but I wondered if you had any way I can apprentice.” They're not going to let you finish your sentence. “How fast can you get down here and meet us at the job site? Tell me your full name so I can run a background check and make sure you're not a serial killer? That kind of thing. I mean, they are just, they're dying for it. I'm sorry. You're going through this. I know we don't have both sides of the story here, but I got to say it's a little messed up that someone took your kids and then ambushed you with divorce papers. What a stressful surprise. I wish you the best of luck and I think there's a lot of promise moving forward since you're willing to work and willing to learn.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:31:23] We'll be right back with more Feedback Friday right after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:27] This episode is sponsored in part by Vistaprint.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:31:29] For small business owners or people who produce their own podcasts, being plugged in and prepared when an opportunity comes up is crucial. Those moments happen all the time. They're happening now and having a business card that shows how professional you are in your pocket ready to hand out is the first step to making something happen. Your next big opportunity is coming right now and all it takes to feel like you're ready to own the now is $10 that's a low price to have the confidence that you're always ready to make an impression or get seen in a new way. A custom card with the colors, fonts, designs, and images you choose means you can look and feel like a big deal. Whether you're a startup or a business with a century of history and it doesn't have to be hard with Vistaprint, you can create a truly professional, unique card in minutes. Upload your design or start with one of our professionally designed options. Vistaprint offers simple tools and a wide range of templates to choose from. Pick the paper stock style in quantity that's right for you. Choose your delivery speed, order and receive your cards and as few as three days. Vistaprint uses only carefully selected inks and responsibly sourced paper stocks. Your satisfaction is 100 percent guaranteed or they'll make it right either by reprinting your order or offering a refund. Vistaprint wants you to be able to own the now in any situation, which is why our listeners will get 500 high quality custom business cards starting at 9.99. Just go to vistaprint.com/jordan. That's vistaprint.com/jordan, vistaprint.com/jordan.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:52] This episode is also sponsored in part by HostGator.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:32:55] Think you don't need a website for your business or brand. Do you figure having a presence on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter has you covered? Well, here's a wakeup call. A recent study by a global market research firm concluded that only 25 percent of the people searching for you online will do so through social media. But 52 percent will look for your website first. So why don't you have a website? Do you think websites cost too much and aren't worth the hassle to create and maintain? We'll HostGator has plans that begin at $2.64 a month. This is a spare change you can probably find under your couch cushions and it covers heavy duty essentials like hosting design, maintenance, support, and tools to make the experience ridiculously easy. Even if you don't know your DNS from a doorknob. And that's why we recommend HostGator's website builder. HostGator allows you to choose from over 100 mobile-friendly templates so your site will look great on any device, smartphones, tablets, desktops, your car, whatever it is nowadays. And if you want to use WordPress for your site, it takes only one click. Add-on options are plentiful, so you can do things like integrate with PayPal and allow customers to buy directly from your website or increase your search engine visibility without being an expert in SEO. You'll also get a guaranteed 99.9 percent uptime and HostGator's support team is there to help you with any issues you experienced 24/7, 365. Don't worry about all this break in the bank either. HostGator is giving our wonderful listeners up to 62 percent off all packages, new users with a 45-day complete money-back guarantee and you even get unlimited email addresses based on your website URL that you can hand out in place of that free aol.com address that you've been using for ages. Go to hostgator.com/jordan right now to sign up. That's hostgator.com/jordan.

 Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:36] This episode is sponsored in part by Arm & Hammer Cloud Control litter. I love my cats, but I don't love all the dust and all the gross kitty litter stuff. I just feel like there are tons of weird bacteria. First of all, Jen's pregnant now, as you all know. She's not allowed--There's so much research and alarmist stuff about not letting pregnant women clean the litter box. Apparently, there are bacteria in there that can do real damage, so the fact that that's floating around in the air just makes it gross. I don't love cleaning up Momo’s litter box for good reason and that's why this Arm & Hammer Cloud Control litter is kind of a game changer for us here. There is no cloud of nasties when the litter robot, yes, we have a robotic litter box, that's a whole different thing. When the, when that thing turns and does this thing or when we have to scoop, it's dust-free. There are no heavy perfumes. I don't need my living room smelling like an old lady and cat poop. I'll just settle for a little bit of muted cat poop. I don't need heavy perfumes. There's not this airborne dander from scooping or swirling around. So what happens in the litter box stays in the litter box with this new Cloud Control cat litter by Arm & Hammer, more power to you.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:35:44] Thank you for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air and to learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard so you can check out our amazing sponsors, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. Now back to the show for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:02] All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:36:03] Hi, Jordan. Jen and Jason. My mother purchased a DNA kit from ancestry to reveal details of who she could be related to. It showed a lot of potential matches including people who are as distant as potential sixth cousins. She also purchased a kit for my sister and I and while my sister has had the test and found people she could be related to, I've refused so far citing privacy concerns and where did the details revealed by this could get into the hands of other groups. They could do things like not cover conditions, I don't know about medically et cetera. Am I right to be concerned and would be interested to hear your views on getting tested? Thanks. Worried by Big Brother.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:37] Well this is a real thing. Privacy is a massive issue. They actually caught the golden state killer, I believe using some DNA type of home DNA kit stuff and then they've matched it with the criminal database. Even if you're not going to be a serial killer. These companies are often not subject to HIPAA privacy rules. They could sell your info to an insurance company who wants to find out who not to cover it or they figured out that you're predisposed to something. They don't have to tell you that they don't have a duty to tell you that. So they probably won't tell you that. And then they're going to turn around and sell your genetic profile to a health care company, insurance company or a hospital, perhaps even your employer. And so that's really not good as the end-user. We need legislation to catch up with these things. I did 23andMe years ago, I had my mom do it too and it was interesting, but now I worry about privacy and frankly, I'm not sure I do it again now knowing what I do know now, maybe you can return it, wait till our information is a little bit more regulated and secure if that ever even happens. Jason, did you ever cover this on Grumpy Old Geeks? Sounds like a thing you would cover.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:37:45] Ad nauseam. Yes, we have.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:47] So what's the story?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:37:48] The story here is yes there is very little regulation and you're looking at 23andMe and Ancestry.com. These companies aren't going to go under anytime soon, but in the case that they did all that data are going to be up for a fire sale and the holes that they have in there right now with sharing with third parties another hole. So if you are worried about this, don't do it. That's really it. If you're going to take one of these DNA tests, you have to be comfortable with the fact that somebody other than the intended recipient is going to get your DNA data. And these aren't full-spectrum DNA tests, these are just the tests that we can do now for cheap, but they still show enough stuff that you could get denied coverage for it at some point. And it's so nascent right now, that is really something that I would recommend anybody do if you are worried at all about privacy. I did it and I don't regret it because I just don't care. But for people that do care, it is definitely something that you should steer clear of and yeah, just return it and get your money back and wait until this shakes out a bit because it's going to shake out in probably another five years. It's going to have its Facebook moment soon, you know it's coming. So yeah, just stick around and wait.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:03] Facebook moment where something horrible happens and it's like, “Oh, 3 million people, 30 million people's DNA was leaked to some shady drug company that now has it all online or something.”

Jason DeFillippo: [00:39:16] Yeah, they're Cambridge Analytica moment.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:18] Oomph. Not good.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:39:21] Yeah, so let's just steer clear for now.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:23] All right, Jason, moving right along.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:39:25] Hello, Jordan and team. Next weekend I'm attending a conference on behalf of my company where many industry leaders will be attending. Our company is a presenting sponsor for the conference and at one point I'll be up on stage presenting. It should be fun. I feel great about our presentation, but wondering what tips you can give me for networking at the conference when we are not on stage. It is a great opportunity to generate some new business for the company while also networking for my personal career. Thanks for any advice you can provide. The advice from your show is a big part of why I'm in this position, so I know you're the right person to help with this. Gratefully yours, Networking Neophyte.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:00] I would take advantage of your speaker position to connect with other speakers both before the event and during and, of course, afterwards, and I've mentioned this earlier on the show, but I outlined this in Six-Minute Networking, so make sure you're doing that at jordanharbinger.com/course. I'll teach you how to go through different resources to get a [indiscernible] [00:40:18] on the other speakers. Reach out to them and say, “Oh, I see you also traveled to Bhutan.  I'm looking forward to doing that. Let's talk about that whatever. I look forward to meeting you at the event.” That's a great way to sort of pre-select yourself to stand out. There'll be looking to meet you. There'll be looking forward to it that have something to talk with you about so it eliminates a little bit of that first email the other speakers and reach out, tell them that you're also speaking, check their LinkedIn profiles and social media and see if you have any personal interest in commons, handball, squash, whatever. This gives you something to get their attention in the email and let them know that you're looking forward to meeting them. And if you can catch their talks or if you can read the synopsis or the summary of their talk, then you can ask them about this when you meet them as well. And don't try to meet people after they get off stage. Don't do the thing where someone speaks and you're waiting at the edge of the stage. That's the front door. Get in line, it's too crowded. You'll be forgotten. You'll be one of many people who approached them after the talk. Try to connect beforehand by email and then before they talk and if there's a speaker dinner, obviously go to that. If not, I would suggest that the event organized a speaker dinner or perhaps you can find a few people you'd like to meet and organize a speaker dinner. Just the four people that you really want to meet. Hey, we're getting together the night before. I'd love to hear from the other speakers. It'd be a great way to get to know everybody, dah, dah, dah, dah. Then you can create something at a restaurant or even at the hotel bar. It'll be a great place to meet these people beforehand. It's also a great way to get in front of your industry and set yourself up as a relationship builder. There's lots more on this exact subject in Six-Minute Networking, but this will get you started. Those emails a few weeks before the event. Those are key because then when you talk to them at the event, they'll remember you and expect to see you there and then, of course, the followup is where you seal the deal with all of this. Jason, last but not least.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:42:12] Hi, Jordan, Jason, and Jen. My best friend owes me money and he hasn't returned it for almost five years now. We've known each other for more than a decade and since then we were great friends. While in college he wanted to become financially independent from his parents and he asked me to lend him money to pay for a semester in college. We don't have student loans in our country to make a living. He started working in a nightclub where he met a bunch of careless guys and got turned on to cigarettes and alcohol. A year later he got back on track for the better and even started his own small business. It seemed promising. At that point, college was a burden for him, so he dropped out halfway through. While getting his business going, he took on some additional loans both from me and his other friends. A couple of years later he started to pay the debt off. It all seemed fine, but later he asked for another loan because he had to pay off another urgent debt. I trust him and I'm financially comfortable so I don't see any problems lending him money, but now his business is gone. He lives with his grandma and works in a warehouse making somewhat decent money, but not nearly as much as it needs to be. He's getting into side hustles, even Instagram blogging and lots of other stuff, but it all appears fruitless. In recent months, we've grown distant deep inside, I feel like I'm losing respect for him because he lacks self-control and isn't able to be frugal to pay off his debts. I haven't seen any money from him for a few years now. Last year, he was involved in a shady money-laundering scheme and promised to pay me off as soon as he got a paycheck, but his partner dumped him. Money isn't a big deal for me and there's no urgency in returning the debt right away, but nevertheless, I don't want to forgive his debt because objectively it's a big some, it's stupid to confess, but the main issue for me is that he still smokes. I know that it's only a drop in the sea, but it's just driving me crazy. He wastes money on ash instead of paying off his debts. Moreover, later this year I'm planning a wedding with my girlfriend and at this point, I don't even want to make it my best man because he seems unreliable. I feel bad that I loaned him money as it changed my attitude towards him and now I'm going to have to have a serious conversation with him. What should I pay attention to? What should I avoid to not make it a friendship disaster? What seems to you the most reasonable resolution to this problem? Thanks for your time. I really appreciate the work you do. Best regards, Friend Lender.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:18] My rule never lend money to friends unless you can afford to never get it back. It's easy to say never lend money to friends. It's harder to actually do this because sometimes your friends need money and you're the one that can help them with it and it's a big deal and it's a game-changer for them but never lend more than you can afford to just never see again and sometimes alone is just a donation to somebody in need. This sounds different though. This sounds a little bit like he was in need but then is irresponsible and has no intention of ever paying you back. Maybe he's a little entitled because your life is in order and his is a mess that happens. Outgrowing friends is part of life unfortunately and a lot of us, I think anybody who's growing a lot, we'll outgrow other people. If you still have all of the same friends as you did in high school, that's great, but it might also be time to go, “Hey, wait a minute, why is that the case?” Maybe you just had a really tight click. That's awesome. If it's because you haven't done much and they haven't done much well you examine that commonality as well. Old friends can be nostalgic, but they don't have to be close to you anymore. I've got a lot of close friends from when I was a kid, but I've also got a lot of acquaintance from when I was a kid that I have nothing in common with now. And if I see them out somewhere or we end up going to dinner with a group of people, it'll be great to catch up. But I'm not trying to get more time with them or more influence in their lives. We can't outrun other people's influence.

[00:45:45] We've talked about this before with social contagion network effects. Things like if your friend's friend is overweight, you have a higher chance of becoming overweight yourself because of network effects. I don't need to stay friends with somebody who smokes pot all day and is unemployed and complains about everyone in their life and I certainly don't want to hang out with people who are adjacent to that. I don't want to increase the amount of FaceTime I have with those people. So you should look at this the same way you're protecting yourself, but not only that, you're protecting your wife, your kids, you're protecting people around you, your family from those people as well. That's important. You might think that you can resist it, but just remember one, you can't and two, that means that people who are around you also have to resist it. Is that worth it? Is it worth it to have your wife and family have to resist your negative friends as well? It doesn't seem fair.

[00:46:40] I would also talk to your friend frankly about this. How is this negatively affecting your friendship? Explain that to him and no one certain terms, you don't have to be a jerk about it, but you should be really candid about it. Work out even a small repayment plan. Yeah, it might take him three freaking years to pay you back, but if he's trying, it means he cares about your relationship. If he starts getting angry about it, if he starts going, “Oh, well you have a bunch of money and you're all successful and you're trying to squeeze dimes out of me and I'm hard up for it,” then you know he feels resentment toward you and towards your life. You know he's envious and or jealous. He's not going to be somebody that you can rely upon in the future. So why are you trying to save the relationship that really isn't there? That's my two cents on it. And I think you should examine this friendship. I think you should talk to him and I think you should be aware that you might never see it and I think you should be ready to hear that this person doesn't value your friendship. I'm not saying that's the case, but it's very possible people tend to show their true colors and what they really think of your relationship when money is on the line. You know, he might be really, really cool and great because you gave him money, but when you ask for it back, does he start avoiding you? Does he get angry with you? That's the real test of your friendship.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:49] Life Pro Tip of the Week. Don't just thank someone when they do something for you, tell them what it means to you. So instead of, “Hey, thanks, this means a lot or this is really great. Tell someone what it actually meant and it will make them so much more happy to help you next time.” So instead of thanks for the ride, it's thanks for the ride, you saved me a bunch of time. You saved me a bunch of phone calls, you saved me a bunch of effort. I really appreciate it. That is specific and it lands a lot better.

[00:48:17] I hope you all enjoy that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. I'll link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Quick shout out to Tomas Conefrey. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. He sent us 50 bucks to go to lunch with the team. That was really nice of you, Tomas. I appreciate that. He said, “I'm enjoying the show enormously at the moment. I'd started Six-Minute Networking, which has been very useful and I'm outside the US so I can't support the sponsors even though I would like to. As a way of showing my appreciation and to support the show. I wondered if I could make a donation.” Yes, you can. Thank you very much, Tomas.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:49] So where are we going?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:50] Yeah, we'll see. Well, somewhere near you probably. Go back and check out Chelsea Handler and Matt Schrier. If you haven't yet, don't forget Six-Minute Networking at jordanharbinger.com/course. I'm not going to beat that one to death this week. I'm on Instagram and Twitter at @JordanHarbinger. It's a great way to engage with the show and videos of our interviews are at jordanharbinger.com/youtube. Jason.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:49:10] You can check out my tech podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks over at gog.show or where you get your favorite podcasts and it is a bit salty, so keep the kids out of the room.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:19] This show is produced in association with Podcast One. This episode was co-produced by Jen Harbinger. Show notes for this episode are by Robert Fogarty. Keeps sending in those questions to friday@jordanharbinger.com. We will always keep you anonymous. Remember, we rise by lifting others, so share the show with those you love. Share the show with everyone for that matter. There's a whole lot in the pipeline. Really excited to bring it to you and in the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

Narrator: [00:49:48] It was a crime, no one expected and one many can forget. 22 Hours: An American nightmare. A new podcast from WTOP news and PodcastOne. Details the heinous murders of a DC Power couple, their 10-year-old son, and housekeeper inside their own home. The chilling messages from the victims being held hostage. The complicated trail of evidence and shocking moments from the trial.

Female 1: [00:50:15] She thinks she knows how Darren went inside the house.

Female 2: [00:50:18] His defense team drops a bombshell.

Narrator: [00:50:20] Will his investigation lead to the release of confidential audio recordings from the case?

Male: [00:50:25] So it's under general counsel review. I mean you know committing to making a transparent court.

Narrator: [00:50:30] 22 Hours: An American Nightmare. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts today.