You stopped renting from a violent, paranoid landlord as soon as you saw the warning signs, but you fear a future tenant may not be so lucky. Can you publish some kind of APB as a heads up to potential victims without getting in legal trouble? We’ll try to find an answer to this and more here on Feedback Friday!
And in case you didn’t already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at firstname.lastname@example.org. Now let’s dive in!
On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- You stopped renting from a violent, paranoid landlord as soon as you saw the warning signs, but you fear a future tenant may not be so lucky. Can you publish some kind of APB as a heads up to potential victims without getting in legal trouble? [Thanks to Corbin Payne for helping us with this one!]
- How can you overcome a lifelong tendency to be late for everything that infuriates everyone you know — most of all you?
- How can you best encourage your friend get help for her recently developed eating disorder when her own family is not only unsympathetic toward her condition, but actively exacerbating it?
- You’re a paralegal who enjoyed working at Firm A — until the pandemic hit. So you took a position at Firm B, but find it less than enchanting after just six months. Now there’s an opening in your old department at Firm A, but you’re worried about being seen as a firm hopper if you apply. Should you go for it anyway?
- You’ve kept the stupid tattoo you got on a drunken night of college debauchery secret from your mom for 13 years. But now you’re going on vacation together and you’re liable to reveal all when you take your shirt off poolside. Is there any way to minimize the inevitable awkwardness of the moment?
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you’d like to share with us? Drop us a line at email@example.com!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi.
Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider leaving your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!
Please Scroll Down for Featured Resources and Transcript!
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Miss the show where we interviewed Google’s Eric Schmidt? Catch up by listening to episode 201: Eric Schmidt | How a Coach Can Bring out the Best in You here!
Resources from This Episode:
- Nicole Perlroth | Who’s Winning the Cyberweapons Arms Race? | Jordan Harbinger
- R. Douglas Fields | Understanding Why We Snap | Jordan Harbinger
- Don’t Mistake Silent Endurance for Resilience | The New York Times
- Priyanka Mattoo | Twitter
- Thomas Erikson | How to Protect Yourself from Psychopaths | Jordan Harbinger
- Corbin Payne | Twitter
- How Do You Prove Defamation? Is Any Defamatory Speech Protected as Free Speech? | Nolo
- Harvey Weinstein Timeline: How the Scandal Unfolded | BBC News
- Guy Winch | How to Fix a Broken Heart | Jordan Harbinger
- How to Overcome Chronic Lateness | Psychology Today
- Scientists Have Found Out Why You’re Chronically Late | Science Alert
- Frequent Multitaskers Are Bad at It: Can’t Talk and Drive Well | Science Daily
- Incremental Validity of Time Urgency and Other Type A Subcomponents in Predicting Behavioral and Health Criteria | Journal of Applied Social Psychology
- James Clear | Forming Atomic Habits for Astronomic Results | Jordan Harbinger
- BJ Fogg | Tiny Habits That Change Everything | Jordan Harbinger
- Gretchen Rubin | Four Tendencies: The Framework for a Better Life | Jordan Harbinger
- Eating Disorder Treatment: Know Your Options | Mayo Clinic
- How to Help a Loved One | National Eating Disorders Association
- Levels of Care | National Eating Disorders Association
- Eating Disorders Helpline | Chat, Call, or Text | NEDA
- Eating Disorders: About More Than Food | NIMH
- 100 Of the Worst, Horribly Done, Bad Tattoo Ideas | Inked
- Oscar Buzz Edition Part 2: Between Two Ferns with Zach Galifianakis | Funny or Die
Psycho Scammer Landlord Alert | Feedback Friday (Episode 544)
[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Special thanks to Zelle for sponsoring this episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show.
[00:00:07] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. Today, I'm here with my Feedback Friday producer, my comrade in conundra, Gabriel Mizrahi on The Jordan Harbinger Show — see no one thinks about the plural of conundrum. That's what's going on here. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people, and we turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission on the show, our greater mission, is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, even inside your own mind.
[00:00:46] If you're new to the show on Fridays, we give advice to you. We answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEO, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. And if you're joining us for the first time, or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about the show, we've got starter packs. These are collections of your favorite episodes, organized by popular topics to help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com/start to get started.
[00:01:16] This week on the show, we had Nicole Perlroth with a deep dive on cyberwarfare and the biggest threats globally, and especially against the United States. This is an interesting show. If you want to know how the world is going to end — but seriously Gabriel, our critical infrastructure, like power plants and stuff, basically you can log in there with like your AOL screen name because the password hasn't been changed since 1998 and just shut down all the safety mechanisms and half of these things.
[00:01:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh great.
[00:01:41] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's mildly terrifying. And like water is not safe. Basically, nothing is safe. Basically, everything is secured with a Post-It note, stuck to a monitor that says password 1, 2, 3, 4, and then you can just dump chemicals into the drinking water. We also had Douglas Fields on why we get super powers when we're angry. So the psychology behind this, how we can harness it without blowing a gasket. Super interesting psychology there on why we snap. And that's the title of his book as well. So make sure you've had a listen and a look to all that we created for you here this week.
[00:02:11] Gabe, you just sent me this cool article from the New York Times by a writer named Priyanka Mattoo. It's called Don't Mistake Silent Endurance for Resilience. And I thought this was pretty insightful. So the story is, Priyanka worked at a big talent agency in LA in her 20s, which is kind of like corporate hell in a lot of ways. Her job was to basically make sure her client's dreams came true. She loved that part of it. She was really good at it, but she hated pretty much everything else or so much else anyway about the job, the red carpets, the schmoozing, chatting people up at movie premieres and all that. And Gabriel, by the way, when I read that I was like that's what most people probably love about jobs like this.
[00:02:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. That seems like the sexy part, but it wasn't for her. Yeah.
[00:02:51] Jordan Harbinger: It is the sexy part. The dealing with all the drama and stuff like that in an agency is often not the sexy part and dealing with talent is almost universally a nightmare. A couple of my friends are agents and they're like, "You know who's the worst person ever?" And it's always this person you thought would be super cool and it's always disappointing. Eventually, she realized she'd been powering through a job for a long time thinking that she's just being resilient. When really she was suffering in silence, just totally in denial about the fact that this was not her true calling, if you will. And she knew it. And as she says in the article, "Tolerating things I didn't enjoy was for a long time, my superpower. Resilience without any waning period turned into endurance. And I became adept at snuffing out my own vulnerability and discomfort before I even felt it."
[00:03:35] And the crazy thing is — well, not so crazy, super predictable in fact, is that her boss loved her for that. She was actually being rewarded for it, suppressing that voice that was telling her that it was time to make a change. So eventually after a ton of soul searching, Priyanka realized what she really wanted to do was be a writer as one does. She left her job, starts working on these creative projects, and that's what she's been doing ever since and quite successfully, I might add.
[00:04:01] I just wanted to share that with you guys because I think we did talk a lot about resilience on the show, right? How to take a hit? How to stick with goals when they get tough, pushing through the dip, finding meaning in adversity. But there's also this dark side to resilience where we think we're being super disciplined and tough by pushing through challenges. And many times we are, but really sometimes we're just shutting down the part of ourselves that says, "I'm not happy. This is miserable. I don't want to do this anymore. This is draining the life out of me. Maybe there's something else out there." It's important to differentiate those two things.
[00:04:34] So the next time you catch yourself powering through work, when you're bored or you're burned out, or you're muddling through life when you're really depressed or disillusioned, especially if you are the type of person like me, who takes a lot of pride in that ability. Stop and ask yourself this question: am I actually being resilient right now? Or am I just in denial? And this is such a great question post pandemic when a lot of us are wondering if it's maybe time to make some big changes. And we'll link to Priyanka's article in the show notes. I highly recommend checking it out. It also really hit me and struck me well, because I spent a lot of time at my old company, excusing bad behavior, excusing me feeling like crap for a long time. Thinking that, "Oh, well, the dip for us is just longer. This is how business is. You know, it's really stressful. There's always going to be this." And that turned out to be a mistake once I started to acknowledge that it didn't always have to be this way and that there was a certain part of me that was just blind, willfully blind to the fact that I needed a big, big change. Once I was able to start to see that for what it was, I made changes and I've never been happier and I really wish I'd done it sooner.
[00:05:38] All right. We've got some fun ones. We've got some doozies. What's the first thing out of the mailbag?
[00:05:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey Jordan and Gabe, earlier this year, I rented a room in a decent house thinking that it would be an interim crash pad until I found my next place. This was a pretty nice property, worth $500,000 in one of the nicest neighborhoods in town and crazy people usually don't have nice houses. So I figured that spoke for itself.
[00:05:59] Jordan Harbinger: This person has never spent a lot of time in LA, but, uh, go on.
[00:06:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Agreed.
[00:06:05] The owner lived on site in the master suite. I thought he was a bit off. He mumbled like a big time stoner, but stoners aren't usually trouble. Then one night around two in the morning while gaming, he started screaming, violent misogynistic profanity at the top of his lungs. Like, "You f*cking whore. I'll kill you."
[00:06:20] Jordan Harbinger: Wow.
[00:06:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, intense.
[00:06:22] It was loud enough to wake me up while sleeping with earplugs on another floor. This wasn't, you know, I get a little excited when a game type of screaming. It was unhinged. I lasted eight days in this place. I then found out that the previous occupant of my room had hastily moved out after the owner menaced him with a knife in the middle of the night, alleging that he was in an ongoing conspiracy with another tenant to harass him in his sleep. I searched the state court database and was shocked to find that on the day I moved in, the owner was literally in court pleading to another criminal charge. His criminal record goes back about 20 years and includes aggravated assault, verbal harassment, DUIs, speeding, assaulting an officer, and more. Much of it pleaded down or out, but the rest he pleaded guilty too. There were also two civil claims from past tenants who sued him in small claims court and won. This guy is violent and certifiably paranoid. He keeps renting out rooms to unsuspecting victims and his preference is college-aged girls who are easier to intimidate out of their money. He's got a posting for rooms available right now, and he's had one up every time I've checked since I moved. I already spoke to one cop I work with about this and he said they can't do anything, but if someone doesn't stop him, he's going to keep doing this scam again and again. And eventually he'll snap. I fear that one day I'll hear about it on TV, ending in a standoff with the cops or a murder suicide. I'm now thinking of writing a story about this guy to warn other people to stay away. I don't need to say anything about him that's not available in public records, in statements from previous residents, or in the texts that he sent me. And I don't intend to embellish anything. Can a writer safely write an article about a real life, crazy person, terrorizing and extorting renters out of their deposits? What's my legal exposure here? And are there any other legal landmines that I should be aware of? Signed, Mightier Than The Sword.
[00:08:11] Jordan Harbinger: So at first I thought this dude was just another super-intense Fortnite player, but it got intensified pretty quickly. I would say Gabe another week, another psychopath, right? This is super creepy stuff.
[00:08:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Another psychopath.
[00:08:23] Jordan Harbinger: Again, not the technical term for all of you who are like, "It's not the term we use anymore." I mean, look, bottom line, super, super weird creepy stuff. I'm sorry that you found yourself in this situation but good on you for figuring it out and leaving so quickly. Eight days — I can imagine it must've been pretty intense to get me out in eight days and maybe forfeit my deposit. It's incredible to me that these parasites are allowed to keep doing what they do, but oftentimes there's really just nothing to stop them legally. So I get why you feel compelled to write a story about this guy. This is your super power and it might be the one thing that exposes this dude for who he is. And it's also a great habit, the psycho scammer landlord. I'm definitely clicking on that. HuffPo.
[00:09:06] On the other hand, though, you're dealing with a known monster who is violent, paranoid. Who knows what will happen when you kick the hornet's nest? I know what Thomas Erickson would say — he's our resident psychopath expert. He'd say, "Walk away. It's not worth it. You cannot win this game. Get as far away as you can from this guy and just walk away." And I get it. That's probably the easiest and most prudent thing to do. But I also get why you want to take this skeezy nut job down and you might just be the person who can do it. Just know that you are inviting some degree of risk, maybe a lot of risk by doing this. You publish the article, you might find yourself staring at this dude's knife in an Albertson's parking lot one day or something. Or who knows? You know, maybe he'll be rotting in a prison cell somewhere and you'll be safe, although it doesn't sound like these crimes would put them away for a long period of time.
[00:09:58] And so you do have to consider your exposure here. That said, you're really asking a legal question here, and I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer. So we consulted with the one and only Corbin Payne, defense attorney and friend of the show. And Corbin's take is that this is essentially a question about defamation, the legal part anyway. So super quick legal lesson here, basically a statement about a private individual, as opposed to a public figure is defamatory. If A, it's false, and B, the defamer made the statement recklessly or negligently, and C, the statement causes harm to the person about whom the statement was made. The really important point here is that a true statement cannot be construed as defamation. So for the purposes of your question, we're going to assume that all of your allegations against this guy are true and that you can back them up with evidence. And if you can't, a court might find that the claims were not true or were made recklessly or negligently, and you could have been found to have defamed this guy. Now, of course, remember, he's got to sue you for this, which is unlikely as well.
[00:11:03] So bottom line, as Corbin's view, is you can write about this guy's criminal record to your heart's content, because that is a public record. You're not revealing anything new. You can talk about the arrests, the convictions, the allegations made in court, the allegations made in the charging documents, all of that. The only caveat here is that you need to make sure you use the correct terminology and how you characterize this guy's interactions with the police. Psycho landlord, he might've been arrested for half a dozen serious felonies, but that doesn't mean he was convicted of all of those felonies. So it's pretty common for defendants to plead to a lower number of crimes than what they were arrested for and the same applies to any civil cases. So like Corbin said, it's one thing to be sued for something. It's another thing to be found liable for the exact thing alleged in the lawsuit. So you have to be very precise in the language you use. You don't want to say somebody who was convicted of XYZ when they were just arrested for that. If they were arrested for aggravated assault, but not convicted of aggravated assault, they were only convicted of some misdemeanor. You don't want to confuse those because that could be defamatory.
[00:12:11] The secondhand allegations against this guy though, those fall into more of a gray zone. You know, it's good to have statements from sources in writing, but that doesn't mean that the statements are true. So in order to avoid being found reckless or negligent, Corbin's view is that you're going to need to take some steps to really ascertain the truth of this matter. This is one reason why journalists try to get two or three different sources to confirm the allegations of another source to really make sure that their story is airtight. But if you can't confirm certain incidents, you can always give yourself some protection by explicitly acknowledging that no one else was a witness to them. So you can even say in the article, so-and-so alleges this, there was no other person who witnessed this incident. That way, you're just reporting on what was said. Instead of defaming somebody by alleging something yourself.
[00:12:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Super sound advice. Also, one of the elements of defamation could actually work in your favor here. So Corbin gave us this other example — I thought this was interesting — so imagine that some reporter wrote a story about Harvey Weinstein. You guys know Harvey Weinstein, right? Famous Hollywood producer, famous for a sexual assault. Okay, he's in the news. And let's say this reporter wrote a story about him verbally abusing his kids. Let's also imagine that Harvey Weinstein was actually a doting, loving father and these specific allegations, they aren't true. So he could turn around in that case and sue the reporter. Prove that the statements were false, but still lose his case because it doesn't damage his reputation anymore than it already is. Like he's already known as one of the most prolific sexual assault perpetrators alive. Right? So additional allegations of child abuse, those probably wouldn't cause the rest of the world to think any less of him given the facts and it wouldn't harm his ability to get business or form relationships or anything like that. His other behavior has already basically closed those doors.
[00:14:02] So you can see where Corbin's going with this, right? If a psycho landlord's criminal history includes a bunch of assault convictions. Then you could argue that saying it happened again recently, doesn't do any more damage to this guy. His assaulted behavior, that's a matter of public record. Also if the record shows that he's a generally violent and crappy person, that the cops have been called to his home on multiple occasions, that he's burned through a bunch of other tenants in a short amount of time, you could argue that describing additional experiences of similar behavior, not really doing any more damage, right? And therefore, not defamation.
[00:14:34] That said you still have to be very careful about how you make your assertions in this article, especially about this guy targeting young female college students. So basically you need to make sure you're differentiating between the unvarnished facts and your opinion of those facts. So if you say that a large number of college-aged females have stayed in this guy's room and they've all vacated the premises in short order, that's fair game. That's objectively what happened. The implications of that number or the explanations for it. That's something else. This guy might be running this scheme because he loves gaining power over women. Sure. That's possible. But he might also be doing it just to exploit them for money or because they're less suspecting targets or who knows maybe just college-aged women happen to make up the majority of the rental market in his neighborhood. You just don't know. So those speculations are just that as Corbin pointed out, speculations supported by facts. So Corbin's advice is don't present them as unvarnished facts.
[00:15:29] Jordan Harbinger: Great. And one last thought here: is this landlord on probation? Because if he is, Corbin pointed out that possessing a knife, much less threatening someone with it, sounds like a probation violation. Anyone on probation signs away some of their rights in exchange for being allowed to survey sentence on probation, I guess it depends on the knife, right? But oftentimes people agree that a probation officer can search their home without having to go through the process of them getting a warrant. And if this guy is a convicted felon, possessing a weapon is absolutely a violation of probation and it's likely a serious crime in and of itself. So you might want to look up who this guy's probation officer is, give that person a ring, fill them in on what's been going on at this guy's house. His PO, his parole officer is probably listed on the plea agreement itself, or it's on file with the court clerk's office. You can probably get it pretty handily by calling and getting those court dates.
[00:16:22] Personally, I'm a big fan of this option because you'd be using the system that's already in place to hold him accountable and you might be able to do it without dragging your name into it. But we've also heard stories here on the show about parole officers, just not doing anything about a serious predator. So it is possible this goes nowhere and he slips through the cracks. In which case your article might be the thing that takes him down, but it doesn't have to be the next step. Right? You can go with the PO route first and maybe keep your name out of the mud too, or at least out of the line of fire. So basically, if you stick to the fact that, you should be well-protected legally speaking. That doesn't mean he's not going to sue you. Of course, he's unpredictable. He'll probably be pissed. I'd be ready for anything if he has the money to do that. But his case is going to be flimsy if not totally unfounded.
[00:17:08] Also, if you work with the legit — by the way, libel lawsuits are super expensive in the first place. Also, if you work with a legit publication to publish this story, their editors and lawyers should make sure that your sourcing and language are in good shape. And if this guy did sue you, the publication might even represent you. There might be something to that. I would ask about that when you sign a contract with them. I'm not sure how it works with freelancers. Maybe, there's a clause in there you could push for, you know, maybe they'll protect you or reimburse you. If this guy ever took action. It's hard to say. And if you don't work with a publication, then I would consider consulting with an attorney yourself and maybe partner with an experienced journalist who can teach you the process that they go through. So you can really dot the I's and cross the T's on your own.
[00:17:53] But good luck, man. I would love to see a journalist take this guy down, especially somebody who is one of his victims. I think you might be saving someone's life. You know, college-aged women can't often defend themselves against some old creepy psycho guy with a knife, nor can most people for that matter. It's going to be a great story as well. Just be rigorous, do your legwork, and most of all, watch your back on this one. I hope that this guy — I hope he crashes and burns. I hope you'll take him down, but he might lash out at you before he does. And definitely send us a link when you publish this thing.
[00:18:24] By the way, y'all can reach us firstname.lastname@example.org. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line. That always helps us out here and makes our job easier. Include the state and country you live in, that'll help us give more detailed advice. And if there's something you're going through any big decision that you're wrestling. Or you just need a new perspective on stuff like life, love, work, how to make friends after a fatal car accident — I'm still thinking about that one from last week as well. Gabe, that was intense. Hit us up email@example.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.
[00:18:59] You're listening to Feedback Friday here on The Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back.
[00:19:04] This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help online therapy. Are you worried that if you see a therapist, it means you're crazy or you're weak? You're some kind of failure. Are you worried what others might think if they find out you do see a therapist? Screw those people. Unfortunately, the stigma of therapy causes many people to decide not to pursue counseling despite experiencing significant emotional, physical, or mental distress. Tell me about it. These can be work-related, financial, health issues, family, parent-child conflict, the ending of a romantic relationship, getting married or divorced, the list goes on and on. So if you are going through one or more of these challenges at the same time, you are not alone. Better Help online therapy will assess your needs, match you with your own licensed professional. So you can start communicating and under 48 hours. You can do video phone, even live chat sessions. It's available worldwide. So no complaining to me about your time zone or whatever. Better Help is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches as well. So they make it easy and free to change counselors if your current counselor is driving you nuts or even more nuts, whatever it is. It's more affordable than traditional offline counseling and financial aid is available. Furthermore, our listeners get 10 percent off their first month of online therapy at betterhelp.com/jordan. Visit better-H-E-L-P.com/jordan. And join over one million people who've taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experience, Better Help professional.
[00:20:20] This episode is also sponsored by Fruit of the Loom. When it comes to apparel, kids need a fit that's designed to fit a kid. That's why at Fruit of the Loom they thoughtfully make and specifically tailor their clothes and underwear to ensure they can deliver a great fit to kids of all shapes and sizes. Sure, they could just make smaller versions of their adult styles, but kids and adults just aren't built the same. That's why only Fruit of the Loom can offer the best fit guarantee. So whether you're looking for underwear, tees, sweatshirts, or sweatpants, Fruit of the Loom has a variety of styles and fabrics to fit all your kids' apparel wants and needs. No matter the kid, no matter the cut, Fruit of the Loom offers the best fit, guaranteed.
[00:20:56] Jen Harbinger: Check out Fruit of the Loom kids' underwear and clothes at fruit.com.
[00:21:01] Jordan Harbinger: What's next?
[00:21:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, I'm 25 years old and I've been chronically late since the day I was born. I'm late everywhere I go, no matter what, always. It doesn't matter where I'm going, doctors, appointments, dates, hangouts, or worst of all my job. This drives everybody I know nuts. And nobody's more disappointed with my untimeliness than I am. I know I have poor time management skills, but sometimes it seems like an almost supernatural occurrence. If I leave the house with plenty of time to spare I'll hit traffic or have a car problem or wind up in inclement weather. I've been attempting to fix this problem my whole life and I keep coming back to my sleep. I'm extremely hard to wake up and I even have an unconscious personality that speaks and does stuff while I'm still asleep, like turning off my alarms. Not quite sleepwalking but close. I've done a sleep study and everything came back normal. So waking myself up has consisted of alarms, bright lights, and even small electrocutions.
[00:21:57] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. I wonder how you set that up.
[00:22:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: I know. It's like a little thing you put on your finger and just — I don't know. I'm trying to picture that.
[00:22:05] Being late has cost me jobs in the past, but I'm finally at a company I really like and want to stay with. They brought my clock-in times to my attention more than once. I'm never more than two or three minutes late, but if I'm not close, why can't I just seem to make it in on time. My boss says that other than my time card, I'm a model employee. Why is this happening? Do you have any advice on keeping a tighter schedule? I love the show and all that you guys do, even if I never listened to the episodes on time.
[00:22:31] Jordan Harbinger: Of course, you don't.
[00:22:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Signed, Not Trying to Brag But I Do Tend to Lag.
[00:22:36] Jordan Harbinger: This is actually a great question. The two to three minutes thing sticks out to me, but I'll get there in a second. You're definitely not alone in this problem. Lots of people struggle with this, but you're right. The stakes are high and there are really good reasons to fix this. So let's get into it. First of all, we did some digging. There are tons of theories out there about why people are chronically late. And we all know somebody like this. A common one is they just failed to accurately judge how long a task will take, whether it's finishing something up before they leave the house or estimating how long it'll take to get somewhere with traffic. This is known as the planning fallacy. It's kind of self-explanatory. Dr. Guy Winch, he was actually a guest on the show that was episode 66. Talk about a throwback.
[00:23:16] He pointed out in one of his articles that a common blind spot for late people is assuming how long a task or journey should take rather than how long it can take. So for example, they tend to assume that traffic shouldn't be bad rather than assuming that it might be bad or they rely on other people's estimates without leaving some margin for error or building in a cushion. Guy also has another interesting theory, which is that late people have a hard time being comfortable with the idea of being early. So they tend to not plan something to do when, for example, they have some time to kill at the airport, or they're the first ones to a meeting.
[00:23:51] Another common trait of chronically late people is that they're more likely to be multitaskers. There's an interesting study from 2003 that found that out of 181 subway operators in New York City — talk about people who probably shouldn't be multitasking. Those who preferred multitasking were more often late to their job. One explanation is that multitasking makes it harder to engage in metacognition, which is basically an awareness of what you're doing. Again, something we hope that subway drivers have. So once you get caught up in the multitasking and when you finally look up, you're late. There's also some evidence that type A people are more punctual and type B people tend to be later because they literally experienced time differently. So in one study, researchers found that for type A people a minute passed in 58 seconds, pretty close, whereas type B people felt a minute pass in 77 seconds, which is pretty fascinating.
[00:24:45] And there's the story that late people on some level maybe enjoy being late because it creates a mini crisis and adrenaline rush. It gives them a boost. They need to get something done. They basically thrive on the panic of running late. They need that manufactured stress to get something done. I definitely know some people like that. I am the opposite of that. That drives me crazy. I hate that feeling, but I know a lot of people are probably hooked on it. But whatever the science one thing is for sure, being chronically late is a habit and habits are very hard to shake. They become part of your operating system, your personality almost. The science even shows that they form mental pathways in the brain that get strengthened with repetition.
[00:25:22] So if you want to fix this, you're going to have to create some new habits. Basically, you're going to have to rewire your brain. So let's start with the practical. I would break down activities into detailed steps so you can accurately estimate how long something will take. Really factor in every step and be precise. So, if you're trying to figure out how long it's going to take to get to work factor in how long it takes to wake up, get ready, make breakfast, walk to your car or the subway, get through worst-case scenario traffic, approach the building, get through security, ride the elevator, get to your desk, all of that, time yourself for a week and figure out how long it actually takes. Then at a 15-minute buffer on top of that, you're never going to be late again and try it out, see how it works. And this is the most important — commit to that routine, no matter what, every single day. After a few weeks, the behavior will eventually create the habit and it'll get positively reinforced when your brain gets a reward for being on time, like, you know, not getting fired or whether it's a lack of anxiety, your boss praising you, your ability to be part of the office in a new way, your personal pride. I know this seems obvious, kind of hokey, but there's real science to this. Tons of experts talk about this strategy. So give it a try.
[00:26:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Good advice, Jordan. He's so close. It might just be a question of fixing the habits. My only question is I do wonder if there's something deeper going on here. You know, sometimes we're late because we just suck at planning, definitely. I've been there, but sometimes we're late because we're avoiding something on some levels. So I'm curious to know what's going through your head when you're trying to leave the house, when you're on your way to work, when you're rushing up the elevator, even though you woke up half an hour early. Are you aware of any anxiety or any resistance in those moments? You know, is there any part of you that I don't know, maybe presents having to show up to some place in the morning on time? Or is being late, maybe a way of asserting just a little more control over your life? Because it's interesting. He's chronically late wherever he goes, but he's only a few minutes late to work. Like you said, if he's that close, why can't he just make it on time.
[00:27:20] Jordan Harbinger: That's like picking up the pace slightly from the parking lot type of thing.
[00:27:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Part of me wonders if that's an unconscious way of saying, "Yeah, I'll show up when you tell me to, but I'll just be three minutes late because I'm in control here. You know, like this is my life." I could see that being a way to play by the rules of the game, but maybe shift the terms just enough to give him a little more autonomy. And the fact that being late has cost you jobs in the past, that does make sense. I wonder if there's something going on here with work specifically, maybe responsibility more broadly that brings up other stuff that's contributing to the lateness. I even wonder if this sleepwalking persona, you talked about who's turning off your alarm, if that could be part of this. I don't think it's totally crazy to think that if you have some unconscious conflicts about having to get up and be somewhere and answer to somebody else in the morning. You would express that while you're sleeping. I mean, that's what dreams are, right? I mean, they're just unconscious expressions of material that we're not really in touch with. This is kind of a dreamlike persona. So if I were you I'd explore that a little bit. See if there's anything unresolved lurking there beneath the surface.
[00:28:21] Jordan Harbinger: Could be. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised that sort of two, three-minute thing stuck out to me as well as I mentioned at the top of this one. That unconscious material is powerful. I'm also wondering what his other habits are like. You know, does he exercise? Does he eat well? Does he drink a lot during the week? Is he staring at his phone for an hour and a half before he falls asleep? All of that stuff can be playing a role here. It's hard to say we don't have the deets on . But here's the good news, you're aware there's a problem. You really do want to change. You do want to keep the job. So I'd start creating new habits around your sleep, around your planning, around your commuting. Seek out the help that you need, whether it's a sleep coach or a therapist or some advice from your boss at work, that might actually be a smart move. So they know you're taking it seriously. And you're actually working on it. Take a deeper look at what's going on beneath this lateness thing.
[00:29:09] Also, we're going to link to a few of our episodes about habit formation in the show notes for you. So we've got James Clear, BJ Fogg, et cetera. Definitely check those out. And if anyone listening has dealt with this type of problem or this problem before hit us up, we'd be happy to pass along any additional advice. So you've got this man. Good luck.
[00:29:26] All right, what's next?
[00:29:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe, a friend I've known since we were in elementary school has just told me that she's developed an eating disorder, bingeing and pinging. To make matters worse, she doesn't have supportive parents. Her father is a functioning alcoholic and her mom has been pushing her to lose weight after she became depressed last summer when COVID began. My younger sister also developed an eating disorder and it has taken well over a year with a very supportive family to get back to what an outsider might see as normal. But we know the disorder will always be there. I know that without a circle around my friend, it will be impossible for her to recover. I also know that the longer she puts off treatment, the words that'll get. I'm close to her, but I'm not that close with our parents. And even if I were to reach out, I'm not sure how they'd react. Do I encourage my friend to get help from her university's medical staff, which is not good at all? Or do I talk to her and try to help her reach out to her parents? Signed, Tending to A Friend Before She Decides.
[00:30:22] Jordan Harbinger: Well, this is sad and unfortunately, pretty common. I'm sorry that your sister has struggled with an eating disorder too, but it sounds like you and your family have really helped her get better. And that is great news. And that puts you in a good position to help your friend right now. So, first of all, one of the best things you can do for her right now is be available, nonjudgmental, and supportive. The fact that she told you she's developed an eating disorder is, it's a big deal. That means she trusts you and she's at least open to working on it. And in all likelihood, she's implicitly asking you for help. Like you said, one of the most important variables in a person's recovery is the support of the people around them. So the more you can be there for her, listen to her, make her feel safe and understood, the better. Ultimately though, she's going to have to do the work of her recovery.
[00:31:09] And that means at a minimum, finding a therapist, seeing a medical doctor. Therapy is where she's going to do a lot of the psychological work she has to understand her eating disorder and resolve whatever's going on around it. In my opinion, this is a non-negotiable. She has to be talking to a professional right now. Ideally, somebody who has experienced treating eating disorders. So it's not their first rodeo. They usually say that on their website or their public profiles. So look for that, somebody who really understands this. This person will probably be the most important variable in her recovery. So she needs a professional to lead the charge here. Seeing a doctor that's also really important to see if the eating disorder has caused any other issues. There are nutritional deficiencies that can happen, electrolyte imbalances, cardiovascular complications, whatever it might be she needs to get out ahead of that. Her college's medical staff should be able to take care of her there, just on the physical front. But if they're not good at overall care, I wouldn't just send her to a primary care physician and call it a day. Again, she needs to see a therapist.
[00:32:10] Now, if your friend drags her feet on getting help, which she might, eating disorders are tricky. They're very tricky. It's not unusual to encounter resistance, even with people who know that they need help. And if she does that, then you might want to consider getting more involved. Maybe you find some names of the therapists on your own, and you send them to her. If she won't pick up the phone, maybe you make some calls yourself and book her an appointment. Ideally, she's driving there. But if she can't or won't, then I think it's worth stepping up. The best thing you can do for her is get her in the room.
[00:32:41] Now, I don't know how severe her eating disorder is, but I know that these things can kill you. Even if they don't seem severe, you can have a ruptured esophagus. I mean, there's all kinds of things that are terrible that can happen. But there are also tons of resources out there for people at different stages. If your friend needs more intensive treatment, she might want to consider an in-patient program, an intensive out-patient program. A residential treatment program might even be in the cards where you live at a facility. You get 24 hour care with lots of structured support. There's therapy there, activities and so on. A lot of insurance covers this stuff. Maybe even your friend's student health insurance might. So don't be afraid to look into those options. But again, if she's in the early stages of this disorder and she's stable, then going to therapy might be enough to at least get her started in the right direction.
[00:33:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. This might be enough. And is absolutely like you said, non-negotiable regardless, definitely the first step. And a therapist should be able to tell if she needs a more serious intervention. So the sooner, the better. As for whether to tell her parents, that's a tricky one. On one hand, she could probably use all the support she could get. And if she's in trouble, maybe her parents need to be keeping an eye on her to some degree, especially if she ends up needing more intensive treatment. On the other hand, it sounds like these parents might not be very helpful. They might even be the cause of the eating disorder in the first place. So that is complicated. Also, she's an adult now. So there's only so much they can really make her do, but at some point she'll probably want to let them in on what she's been going through. This is another example of something that would be really great for her to talk to a therapist about. You know, whether to tell her parents, when to tell them, how, and what to do if they don't respond well, that might be the most important thing. Again, just one more reason. She should be talking to a professional right now.
[00:34:22] So if she's willing and eager to go to therapy, then you probably don't have to tell her parents immediately if she doesn't want to. But if she fights you on this, if another month goes by and she hasn't reached out to anybody, or if her eating disorder is getting noticeably worse then I would reconsider reaching out to her parents, her family, maybe any other close friends you guys share. You can't be entirely responsible for her recovery on your own. And I would also follow her lead there a little bit. You know, if she says, " I really do want to tell my mom and dad, but I don't really know how they're going to react. What should I do?" And she seems ready to do it, but just doesn't know how then maybe you say, "Okay, you know, let me help you through that." Maybe you even go with her to talk to the parents. Hopefully, it's her decision and you're just backing her up and you're not making her do anything. But if this is truly a crisis situation, if it's an emergency, you might actually have to do that.
[00:35:10] Jordan Harbinger: We're also going to link to a bunch of resources for you here in the show notes. Definitely encourage you to check those out. Get some more advice. You can also reach out to some of these organizations for more advice. This is a lot to take in as a friend, so don't be afraid to ask for the help that you need to. And here's another thought. If you think you can help your friend and your sister's open to it, maybe you can offer to put them in touch. I'm assuming they already know each other. Maybe talking to somebody else who's been through this and came out the other side will give her some confidence and hope, a model to follow. If your sister tells her, the only way I beat this thing was going to therapy, talking to my family and really working on this stuff. That could be very powerful.
[00:35:47] Again, I'm really sorry that you're going through this. I'm sorry your friend is going through this. I know it must be scary to watch your friends suffer, especially after what your sister went through, but you know how this works now, and she's lucky to have you looking out for her. So we're wishing you and your friend the best. Good luck.
[00:36:05] This is The Jordan Harbinger Show, and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back.
[00:36:10] This episode is sponsored in part by Zelle. Zelle is a great way to send money to friends and family, no matter where they bank in the United States. These days I travel light. I don't even carry a wallet most of the time, which is always great, when you get to the airport without your ID, much less carry cash. Basically, Jen is my wallet now. Zelle is easy and fast. I pay my barber using Zelle. Another friend just got engaged. So we use Zelle to quickly send them a little honeymoon fund. And you don't have to download yet another app because it's most likely already in your banking app, since it's in over a thousand different banking apps in the first place. The money sent goes straight into the recipient's bank account, typically in minutes between enrolled users. So look for Zelle, Z-E-L-L-E in your banking app today.
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[00:39:08] Jordan Harbinger: Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good products and/or services? You can always visit jordanharbinger.com/deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the show.
[00:39:21] And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.
[00:39:25] All right, next up.
[00:39:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey Jordan, I'm a 30-year-old paralegal in a large metropolitan city. In 2020, I started working at a large law firm. Let's call this Firm A.
[00:39:35] Jordan Harbinger: Creative.
[00:39:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: I was generally enjoying my work in area of law, but our workload was slow. Then the pandemic hit. In late 2020, I was contacted by a former colleague who was now working at a new smaller firm. Let's call it Firm B. She offered me a paralegal position in an area of law that was new and exciting to me with really good pay and more responsibility, so I took the offer. I've now been at Firm B for six months, and I'm not liking the area of law. Our department chair has also had some health issues and I'm concerned about the future of this group. It's very small and we haven't been bringing in many cases. I recently heard that Firm A has an opening in my old department. I asked if they would be interested in me coming back and they were absolutely thrilled. I'm really considering going back to Firm A where I enjoy the work more and will be busier and more fulfilled. My hesitation is that I've only been at Firm B for six months and I don't want to be seen as a firm flip-flopper. So is it okay to go back to my old firm? Signed, Hop to the Hut Shop or Stop and Chalk It Up to a Flip-flop.
[00:40:37] Jordan Harbinger: Nice. All right. Well, Gabe, the paralegals at my firm did all the real work. That was always kind of the joke. They're infinitely more qualified than most of the junior attorneys on staff. It's a pretty good gig. It's a skilled gig. So this one's pretty easy. And I would say yes. If you're miserable in this role and they might be dissolving the group anyway, it's a great time to make a change. It sounds like you'll be happier. You'll be busier and you'll be in a better position to negotiate a new job now than later, if they just let everybody go, right? From your department now, and then you flood the market or there's another reason. Also, you know, life is short, you got to do what you enjoy as much as possible.
[00:41:12] The only caveat here is just make sure that your position at Firm A is definitely going to be better. And it's not just the shiny new thing or the shiny new, old thing in this case. It's not a grass is greener on the other side of the fence that you were already on before type thing. It sounds like—
[00:41:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: It rolls off the tongue.
[00:41:29] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it rolls right off the tongue. It sounds like it's going to be fine, but I know that sometimes when you're unhappy, it's easy to hype up a new situation and pin all your hopes on a new job. It's called escapism. I'm as guilty as anyone. And I get that you don't want to be a firm hopper, but it takes some effort to get that reputation. You'd have to jump back to Firm A, then jump to Firm C in six months, then hop to another place the following year, before it really raised any eyebrows. But if you work somewhere for six months, nine months, and someone asks you what happened, "Why'd you come back?" All you have to do is tell them a meaningful story, you know, something like this, "I went to Firm B because the work was exciting and they gave me more responsibility, but it turned out the department was losing steam. I learned a ton there, but I didn't love the work I was doing. So when my old employer invited me to come back, I said, 'Yes.'" I mean, that's really — don't overthink this. In fact, your old employer is inviting you back. I think that helps compensate for the short amount of time you spent at Firm B in the first place. That signals to me that you're a desirable employee. It almost makes it sound like you weren't looking to jump ship. The invitation came in and it made sense. It was a great offer. So you took it. I don't think anyone is going to bat an eyelash at that.
[00:42:36] So that's my advice: go where you're wanted, go where the work is interesting. The team is solid. The pay is good. Don't sweat the timeline too much. But if you find yourself getting restless again in six months, year, and it starts to become a pattern, then I would look at that and figure out maybe what's going on, but it just doesn't sound like you're there yet. So congrats on being such an in demand paralegal. Again, great skill to have. Great gig. Good luck.
[00:43:00] All right. What's next?
[00:43:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey gang, about 12 years ago when I was 23, I had some college friends in town. We hit a bar around noon and started drinking fishbowl mixed drinks.
[00:43:12] Jordan Harbinger: No.
[00:43:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: So that's like the big fish, like with the blue, like it was like blue alcohol, usually.
[00:43:17] Jordan Harbinger: Right. That's like dumping an entire, you know, pound of sugar and then throw some like crappy vodka in there and put a giant straw or two in there and food coloring. Yeah. It's horrifying.
[00:43:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Just a recipe for massive hangover.
[00:43:30] Jordan Harbinger: Gosh, yeah, and apparently worse, according to this question, wherever — this is obviously going somewhere, right?
[00:43:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: One thing led to another, and we ended the night by getting epic matching fishbowl tattoos.
[00:43:40] Jordan Harbinger: See, I told you. This never leads — I mean, it's not like, "And I ruined my favorite shirt. It still has blue food coloring on it." No, it's kind of like, "And it dribbled down my chest and now I've got a freaking tramp stamp."
[00:43:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: And I defaced my literal body.
[00:43:52] Jordan Harbinger: Right.
[00:43:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay. We did it because — this is even worse.
[00:43:56] Jordan Harbinger: So much worse.
[00:43:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: We did it because our waiter told us that if we got the tats, we drink for free the rest of the night, but shocker, he didn't hold up—
[00:44:06] Jordan Harbinger: So you didn't even get the free alcohol. Not that would have been even a remotely good trade if he did follow through with it, but you got shafted even then.
[00:44:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dude.
[00:44:15] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my God.
[00:44:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's like the worst trade deal in the history.
[00:44:18] Jordan Harbinger: Terrible. And you still got shafted on it. The waiters, like, "I didn't think you guys would be dumb enough to do it. Just kidding. It's still $240 plus tip."
[00:44:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: We're now creeping up on the 13th anniversary of the event. I'm a grownup now, married with kids, supposed to be mature and all that. And we're about to go on vacation with a bunch of close family, friends, and my mom who still doesn't know that I got this time. I don't think she'll actually be angry and realistically she probably won't even care. Still I've kept the secret for a very long time. So, how do I break the news? Do I take my shirt off and just act like it's not a thing? How do I explain the 13 years I haven't told her? And what do I do if she actually does get upset? Signed, Hiding Nemo.
[00:45:00] Jordan Harbinger: That's a really good one. All right. Gabe, the story is objectively hilarious, but it's also so annoying, right? He got a sh*tty tattoo because the waiter told them they could drink for free. And then it turned out to be a lie. Oh my God, and now our boy has to walk around with a tattoo of a freaking clownfish on his shoulder blade because Dave, the bartender, thought it would be funny.
[00:45:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: I feel like this is something that would happen to like Zach Galifianakis in a movie.
[00:45:23] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Like a scene where he and his friends go skinny dipping on a road trip. And they're like, "What the hell is that?" And he's like, "Oh, that's my fishbowl man tramp stamp." You know, like it's some stupid plot device. Anyway, it's too late to change things now. So what do you do? Well, honestly, I think you're going to be okay. You're 35 now, you're an adult. Like you said, your mom, probably not even going to care. I get that you're embarrassed for sure. I mean, I understand. If you want to be a little theatrical about it though, you can just take off your shirt, wait till someone notices. Then gather everyone around and tell them the story of the night, you and the boys got matching fishbowl tattoos down in Tampa, which, you know, that's where that happened or Fort Lauderdale, or if you want to head off any dirt, you're both in Florida. If you want to head off any drama, you can call your mom before the trip or pull her aside at breakfast and be like, "So, listen, it's kind of embarrassing. I know I never told you. 13 years ago, me and the boys, we got really wasted at a tiki bar. We ended up getting matching tattoos. I didn't want to tell them because it was incredibly dumb and I'm sure the last thing you want as a mother is to see your son with a fishbowl on his love handle or rib cage or whatever, but you're going to see it anyway. So there it is. Sorry, I didn't tell you sooner, but I was obviously embarrassed." And actually, if she does get upset, then I don't know, let her, I guess. She's going to have to just have the reaction she's going to have. She's your mom. If she gets angry, I think it's got to be short-lived. This is so long ago. Tell her you understand you were upset with yourself for a while and just let her come to terms with it. You guys will probably be laughing about by dinnertime. Also a lot of how she reacts is going to depend on how you react. If you're super cagey and you're uncomfortable, she'll probably have more reason to be upset. If you can laugh about it and tolerate her reaction, I think it'll be easier for her to accept it too.
[00:47:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, totally. You know, Jordan, I have this friend he's in his, I think he's in his fifties now. He's actually the CFO of a pretty major company. He has a Tweety bird tattoo on his upper thigh. Literally a Tweety bird tattoo on it, like a grown man with a yellow bird on his thigh.
[00:47:21] Jordan Harbinger: Cringe.
[00:47:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's super cringy. The first time I saw it, we were at the beach and I was like, "Ah, dude, what is that? And he was like, he was just like, "Oh yeah, that's my Tweety bird." Just, you know, some drunken night with his buddies, like twenty-five years ago, he laughed about it and then I laughed about it. And that was pretty much that. Look, I'm not his mom, so it's different. But the fact that he was so secure about it, that made it easier for me to accept it too. And now it's just like this funny thing that we laugh about from time to time.
[00:47:44] Jordan Harbinger: Well, there you go. You're not the only person who's got a dumb tattoo when they were drunk and look at Ben Affleck, right? Doesn't he have some huge, terrible dragon tattoo on his back?
[00:47:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: He does.
[00:47:53] Jordan Harbinger: That gets dragged through the tabloids all the time. I mean, he seems to be doing okay. Or maybe not. I do see a lot of memes about him. It's hard to say, but I mean, I think he was last spotted in the Hamptons with J-Lo or something. So like, oh, well, right? And anyway, if you really start to hate it, you can always have it removed or covered over with a better one, not a bad option, but no matter what happens, it'll never be as bad as Ben Affleck's tattoo anyway. It's just, it's not possible.
[00:48:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's the takeaway.
[00:48:18] Jordan Harbinger: Otherwise, I say own it, have fun on vacation. And if you find yourself at a dive bar on this trip and a waiter makes you an offer, maybe don't take them up on it, yeah.
[00:48:27] Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week. And of course, everyone who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out the episodes with Nicole Perlroth and Douglas Fields if you haven't yet. So cyberwarfare and rage, respectively, super powers with rage, anyway.
[00:48:42] If you want to know how I managed to book all these great people and manage my relationships. I use software. I use systems and I use tiny habits. And I'm teaching you how to do that for free. I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty. Our course is called Six-Minute Networking. It's over on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com/course. Again, I've used this stuff. I use it every day. I highly recommend you do too. Again, it's totally free. I don't need your stupid credit card. I got nothing for sale. I just think the more people that know this stuff, the better, jordanharbinger.com/course.
[00:49:15] A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. Videos are on our YouTube channel jordanharbinger.com/youtube. We also have our clips channel at jordanharbinger.com/clips. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or you can hit me on LinkedIn. And you can find Gabe on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi or on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi.
[00:49:37] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My amazing team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice, opinions, those are our own, and I am a lawyer, but not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on this show. And remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.
[00:50:13] Stay tuned after the show, we've got a trailer of our interview with Eric Schmidt, former chairman of Google. He tells us why governments shouldn't have their claws in a free and open Internet, and what form privacy might take in the age of tech mega corporations. This is a rare chance to hear from somebody at the top of one of the largest tech behemoths on the planet. So be sure to stay with us after the show for that.
[00:50:34] I've heard that you actually got to Google and didn't think the company was up to much, but it was the argument that you got into with Larry and Sergey that really won you over.
[00:50:44] Eric Schmidt: Ah, you know, I heard about search engines — search engines don't matter too much, but fine, you know, it's always trying to say yes. So I walked into a building down the street and here's Larry and Sergey in an office. I may have my bio projected on the wall and they proceed to grill me on what I'm doing at Novell, which they thought were a terrible idea. And I remember as I left that I hadn't had that good an argument in years. And that's the thing that started the process.
[00:51:13] Jordan Harbinger: In a meeting once, someone asked you about the dress code at Google, and I think your response was, "Well, you have to wear something."
[00:51:19] Eric Schmidt: That rule is still in place. You have to actually wear something here at work. They hired super capable people and they always wanted people who did something interesting. So, if you were a salesperson, it was really good if you were also an Olympian. We hired a couple of rocket scientists. No, we weren't doing rocketry. We had a series of medical doctors who we were just impressed with, even though they weren't doing medicine.
[00:51:43] The conversations at the table were very interesting. But there really wasn't a lot of structure. And I knew I was in the right place because the potential was enormous. And I said, "Well, aren't there any schedules? No, it just sort of happens.
[00:52:00] Jordan Harbinger: If you want to hear more from Eric Schmidt and learn what role AI will take in our lives and how ideas are fostered inside a corporate beast like Google, check out episode 201 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.
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