Your sister’s new boyfriend is a flag-waving neo-Nazi who admires what Hitler did for “his people and country.” And even though she insists he’s somehow one of those rare non-racist neo-Nazis, she herself has cut off contact with previously close Black and Jewish friends. How do you help her see why all of this is so wrong and counter to your inclusive upbringing? We’ll tackle this and more here on Feedback Friday!
And in case you didn’t already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at email@example.com. Now let’s dive in!
On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- Tune in on Friday, November 6th, 13th, 20th, and 27th at 2 p.m. Pacific through the Stereo app (available on iOS and Android) to hear Jordan and Gabe gab live!
- “If a decision is reversible, the biggest risk is moving too slow. If a decision is irreversible, the biggest risk is moving too fast.” -James Clear
- How do you get your sister to see why dating her new neo-Nazi boyfriend and alienating her formerly close Jewish and Black friends is wrong on so many levels?
- You’re about to become an officer in the US Navy, but you’re worried your commitment to teetotaling will ruin your chances of bonding with your shipmates. How can you balance your desire to abstain with the need for a social life on board?
- You’re honored to be the best man at your friend’s wedding, but you’re not too keen on going to the planned bachelor party in the middle of a pandemic. How can you get out of it without jeopardizing your friendship forever?
- You’ve been reconnecting with old friends and colleagues thanks to the exercises in our free Six-Minute Networking course, but is there a good way to recommend the course without giving away the fact that it’s why you started reaching out to them in the first place?
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you’d like to share with us? Drop us a line at firstname.lastname@example.org!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi.
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Miss our two-parter with former Westboro Baptist Church spokesperson Megan Phelps-Roper? Make sure to catch up starting with episode 302: Megan Phelps-Roper | Unfollowing Westboro Baptist Church Part One here!
Resources from This Episode:
- Stereo (for iOS and Android)
- Anthony S. Luciano Raimondi | The Mob Enforcer Part One | TJHS 425
- Anthony S. Luciano Raimondi | The Mob Enforcer Part Two | TJHS 426
- If You’re “Too Busy” To Respond, You’re Doing Something Wrong | Jordan Harbinger
- Ray Dalio | Principles of an Investing Pioneer Part One | TJHS 389
- Mark Cuban | Tales from the Shark Side | TJHS 362
- Bypassing Putrid Pop’s Repulsive Proclivities | Feedback Friday | TJHS 421
- Eric Schmidt | How a Coach Can Bring out the Best in You | TJHS 201
- “If a Decision Is Reversible, the Biggest Risk Is Moving Too Slow. If a Decision Is Irreversible, the Biggest Risk Is Moving Too Fast.” | James Clear, Twitter
- James Clear | Forming Atomic Habits for Astronomic Results | TJHS 108
- Neo-Nazi | Southern Poverty Law Center
- Adolf Hitler | The Holocaust Encyclopedia
- 9 Things You Might Not Know About Adolf Hitler | Britannica
- American History X | Prime Video
- Christian Picciolini | Breaking Hate Part One | TJHS 317
- Mick West | How to Debunk Conspiracy Theories | TJHS 363
- The Krupp Dynasty: Glorified and Vilified | Deutsche Welle
- Where Catherine Oxenberg’s Daughter India is Now After NXIVM | Esquire
- Paris Hilton | Esquire
- 8 Creative Excuses for Not Drinking Alcohol | Hello Sunday Morning
- 39 Excuses for Not Drinking | The Fix
- COVID-19 Map | Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
- How to Say “No” to Social Gatherings During COVID-19 | Houston Methodist On Health
- Six-Minute Networking
Transcript for Sister’s Neo-Nazi Boyfriend Raises Red Flags | Feedback Friday (Episode 427)
Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] By the way quick announcement, if you want to catch us live, of course, live on the Internet, Gabriel Mizrahi and I are going to be doing live Deep Dives. You can listen along with us while we record, and you can submit your questions to us in real-time in the Stereo app. You go to the App Store, Android or iOS. Download the Stereo app. We're live Friday, November 6, 13, 20, and 27. That's November 6, 13, 20, and 27 at 2:00 p.m. Pacific time. Download the Stereo app, follow me there, and you will get notifications of when we are doing these live shows. And we'd love to hear from you.
[00:00:40] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. Today, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my partner in prescription, Gabriel Mizrahi. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. We turn these fascinating people's wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission here on the show is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, sometimes even inside of your own mind.
[00:01:15] If you're new to the show on Fridays, we give advice to you. We answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-format interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs and athletes, authors, thinkers, performers. If you want to know where to get started, the advice episodes are great, sure — but if you want a selection of featured episodes with some of our favorite guests and popular topics, go to jordanharbinger.com. We'll hook you up.
[00:01:40] This week, Gabriel, the episodes were bonkers. I had this guy on, Anthony Salvatore Luciano Raimondi, okay. Lucky Luciano, right? Ring a bell?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:01:50] Name like that? Yeah.
[00:01:51] Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:51] He was the enforcer for one of the major crime families back in the day in the 60s, 70s, 80s, his stories are absolutely bananas. First of all, when you have four names, and they're all Italian, Holy moly. Right? It's going to be insane. And in addition to that, I'm trying to just sort of like manage expectations here. Okay, without sounding hyperbolic, he has done major, major heists and his crew was involved in the assassination of the Pope.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:02:23] I'm sorry, what?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:24] Yeah, I know. His crew was involved in assassinating a Pope.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:02:28] Sorry, which installment of the franchise is this? Or is this actually in the interview?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:33] It's in the interview.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:02:34] This isn't a book that you read and then confused it with the interview.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:37] I know. No, he literally, and he's like, "Maybe we did. Maybe we didn't. Maybe the guy just died randomly when I was in the Vatican with my cousin, talking about how to assassinate the Pope."
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:02:47] Wow.
[00:02:47] Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:47] It's bonkers. I'm telling you, like, I've never heard anything like this. And at first, I was like this — when they pitched me this guy, I was like, "Eh, not going to do it, obviously full of crap." Then I talked with other people I know that we're in — like convicted, you know, Mafiosi and they're like, "Yeah, I knew him, real guy, like the real stuff.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:03:04] Oh, wow. So they, they like vouched for him. That's crazy.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:07] Yeah. Like Sammy the Bull was like, "Yes, I know him."
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:03:10] Wow.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:10] "I know who he is. Definitely a real guy."
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:03:12] Does he still go by the enforcer?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:14] No. I mean, we do — he's got a thing that we call the enforcer, but he was the — so the enforcer is like a title in a crime family. I didn't know this. You have boss, underboss, and enforcer. I thought all mafia guys just killed each other all the time. There's actually a subset of guys that are enforcers. Like you might have guys that beat up other guys, and you might have guys that kill other guys, but there are one or two guys in each crime family and they are the enforcer and they are the person. That gets the call when somebody has got to go. It's always one or two guys always.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:03:46] So he's terrifying is what you're saying.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:49] Yeah. Yeah. He got in the studio and he was like, "Do I got to wear these headphones?" And I was like, "Yeah. Are they uncomfortable?" He's like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Well, can you deal with them?" He's like, "Not particularly." And I was like, "You got to wear them for like two hours," and he's like, "All right, fine, whatever."
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:04:04] He's got to be — sorry — it was scary telling the enforcer to wear uncomfortable —
Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:09] You sit there and you wear those headphones, buddy.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:04:12] You might be the enforcer, but I'm the enforcer of —
Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:15] I'm the host. You sit there and you're going to like it.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:04:18] I enforce decent audio quality, sir. Just put on the headphones.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:22] I got to enforce audio quality on this episode of the show. Yeah. So he had this cane.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:04:27] Of course, he did.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:27] And at the end of the show, he's like, "Are the cameras off? Are the cameras off, the cameras off?" I'm like, "Oh, the cameras are on. I can see you, but they're not recording." And he takes the cane and he draws this big ass sword out of the cane. And I'm like, "It's so illegal in Manhattan."
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:04:40] Shut up. Shut the f*ck up.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:41] He lives in Manhattan.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:04:42] That didn't happen.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:43] It's so illegal.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:04:44] That actually happened?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:45] Ridiculous. Yeah. He's got a sword in there and I was like, "Do you need that? Can you even use that?" He's like, "How talented you are if you got to stab somebody?"
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:04:51] That's a fair question. Yeah. Probably moderate to not very talented.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:56] I would say the bar is low for killing someone with a cane.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:04:59] At close range.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:59] Sword cane.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:05:00] Yeah, with a cane sword.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:01] Close range. Exactly. Anyway, so go check out The Enforcer from this week, two-part episode, I also write every so often on the blog. My latest post is If You're Too Busy to Respond, You're Doing Something Wrong. It's about all the excuses that people make for being unresponsive by email, why that type of thinking is deeply flawed, and how it's probably holding you back in your life and in your career and in your relationships. I know, Gabriel, a lot of people that think like, "Oh, I'm too busy for email. The most successful people I know are great at it.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:05:30] Yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:31] That made me sort of step back and be like, why are Ray Dalio, Mark Cuban, Stephen Schwarzman — why are they awesome at email? And all these like kind of struggling influencers are terrible at it. What's going on here? So we sort of dissected that.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:05:44] Yeah, it's a great question. I love that.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:46] All the articles are at jordanharbinger.com/articles. As always, you can reach us for this episode of the show — these Friday Advice episodes — email@example.com. If there's something you're going through, any big decision you're wrestling with, or you need a new perspective on something, life, love, work, whatever how to deal with your dad's BO, which we had a couple of weeks ago. Whatever is keeping you up at night these days. Hit us up at firstname.lastname@example.org. Even if you've already gone through a crazy situation, you just want to know what we would have done. We're down to offer another take. I know sometimes these hypotheticals can be interesting and useful for other people as well. So don't think that your question's boring. Please do though keep your emails as concise as you can. Try to include a descriptive subject line. That inbox is littered with the subject of Feedback Friday or advice needed. That just makes our job a lot easier. And we do keep every letter anonymous. You don't have to tell us to do that. You can try and think of a name for yourself, but Gabe is pretty good at that. So we'll let him have that.
[00:06:44] Now, something that I thought of recently because somebody was talking about Eric Schmidt, former chairman of Google, who was on this show episode 201. If a decision is reversible, the biggest risk is moving too slow. In other words, if you can take it back, a lot of people will overthink it. They'll move really slowly. They might miss the opportunity. If a decision is irreversible, the biggest risk is moving too fast. If you can never take it back, if it happens and then it's over, then you have to be more deliberate. A lot of people confuse this, right? They think like, "Oh, should I try this? Should I try that? I don't know. Should I spend 10 bucks on this? Should I spend money on that? I don't know. Should I concentrate on this? Should I concentrate on that?" A lot of people, deliberate way too much on things that are reversible, just do something, and then you can change course later.
[00:07:29] And then of course there's a lot of people that spend almost no time deliberating about something that is irreversible, such as how to spend four years of college. And they don't deliberate that at all. And they just kind of pick something, thinking they can move or pivot later, and that's harder. So that's episode 201 with Eric Schmidt, former chairman of Google. I don't think he had that as a quote in there, but it was a principle I took from the episode and I wanted to throw that in. That will be linked in the show notes episode 201.
[00:07:54] By the way, if you ever want to get to an episode of the show, jordanharbinger.com/and then episode number. So Jordan harbinger.com/201 will take you right to episode 201 and that works for every episode of this show. You don't have to know the name and Google it and find it. You can just use the slash and then the episode number, although the odds of you remembering the episode number, slim. But if you want, if you're listening to one on your phone and you want to tell somebody else about it, you don't have to tell them the name or anything. Just say jordanharbinger.com/whatever episode number. And they'll go right there to the webpage with the show notes.
[00:08:25] Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:08:27] Hello guys. About two months ago, my 23-year-old sister met a guy on Tinder and they started dating about a week later. She told my family that he is essentially a neo-Nazi, a skinhead, and even has a swastika tattooed on his arm. My European family and my friends are very diverse and there has never been a hint of racism in our upbringing. I'm so horrified that she could continue to date someone with so much hate in his heart. At the same time that she met him, her two best friends, one who was black and the other Jewish each had a baby and she completely stopped seeing them and checking in, which has ended their friendship. She's tried to tell me that her boyfriend is not racist. He has multicultural friends and he just really admired what Hitler did for his people and his country, which I think is a load of BS. She hasn't done much research on the history of this and is also into absurd conspiracy theories researching with total confirmation bias. She's been in an abusive relationship in the past, but she refuses to get help or therapy because she thinks it's more effective to quote-unquote, bottle it up. I've tried to create a loving environment for her and just ask why she has these beliefs, but I end up getting emotional and telling her how wrong it is. I'm now worried that she will isolate herself even further and possibly get entrenched in some of these hateful beliefs too. How would you approach this situation? Signed, Stopping My Sister's Nazi Bae from Leading her Astray.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:50] I'm not a licensed therapist, but I'm going to go ahead and say that bottling it up is never a good strategy. You know, it's interesting to hear someone say this because doesn't everyone know that bottling it up is bad. So when people say this, Gabe, I'm sort of thinking, is that the cry for help when they go, "Nah, I'm just going to bottle it up"?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:10:06] I'm just going to stuff it down, that's my strategy.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:08] Yeah, I'm going to choke it down. All that hate.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:10:10] I read on the Internet that you're supposed to do just stuff.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:13] That you're supposed to have to suck it up. Yeah, no, that doesn't make any sense. Also, let's talk real briefly about what Hitler did for his country. He got millions of them killed. He got cities bombed into oblivion, destroyed a ton of the history, marred their name for a century and counting after the fact — oh, and then opted out by blasting his brains out after the fact because he didn't want to face any consequences. What a hero?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:10:37] But hold on, hold on. I mean, he was pretty good at manufacturing.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:42] He was good at manufacturing.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:10:43] I think that's what she's referring to, probably their heavy manufacturing capability. I think that's probably —
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:47] Yeah, of course. Yeah. What was I thinking naturally? They were thinking of the innovations made in mechanical and optics.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:10:53] Yeah. They're also well known for their coffee machines. So I just —
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:55] That's true.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:10:56] Credit where credit is due.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:58] That's true. He's got a swastika and an espresso machine tattooed on his leg. Ah, good, Lord. All right. Well, okay, first of all, I'm sorry that you're in this situation. I can only imagine how disturbing it must be to know that your sister's dating someone like this, especially with a friend who's black and Jewish. That just shows me that her heart is not in this. One day, she just swipes right and a week later, she's Sieg heiling with Edward Norton from American History X. I just think it's incredibly sad. Not just because your sister is involved with somebody who holds these views, but because you feel like you're losing her to an ideology that she clearly does not even fully understand. I don't even think she understands it a little bit. All she understands is that she's got to ditch her other friends for this yodel.
[00:11:39] And I'm really glad that you reached out because what you're going through here, it's obviously very personal. This is your sister, it's your family, but it's also something tons of people around the world are going through right now, especially as white supremacy and conspiracy theories are undergoing a resurgence, which candidly is just baffling, given how flawed and insane these theories really are. And how little they stand up to any sort of scrutiny scientific or otherwise. And by the way, we're talking about neo-Nazis and conspiracy theories, but what your sister is involved in, it's very similar to all extremist ideologies out there, whether they're religious or cultural or social or whatever.
[00:12:19] So look, the latest research into why people gravitate to white supremacy and to any extremist ideology really — the latest research, what it shows is that it's not really about the ideology itself, but about the psychology of the person who is drawn to it. In other words, it's never really about the movement, almost never. What is it about? It's about what the movement provides to its members. And in almost every case, the people who fall into these movements are extremely vulnerable individuals. Vulnerable how you ask — well, they're usually people who feel alienated to some degree, people who don't have many relationships that give them meaning and connection. People who are hungry for acceptance and belonging as a result. So like gangs, essentially, right? They end up finding all of these things and a movement that speaks to their fears and to their desires. So fears, on one hand, desires on the other. Their fear of being marginalized, their anxiety about being inferior or alone, their desire to feel valued and validated, and powerful.
[00:13:19] And yeah, the particulars of white supremacy, whether it's, "Jews cause all the problems in the world or black people don't even have a place in this country or white people are inherently superior and need to lead the way." And by the way, The white people who usually say this have like five teeth and zero education. So seriously just look online. Whenever I see these pics, I'm just thinking like, "Behold, the master race. Look at this guy." You know, he's like doing a keg stand and trying to catch what's left of his teeth, with like a ripped wife-beater. I mean, they're just never high-quality individuals. The top rung of this ladder is somebody that you would never associate with. It's just disgusting. And these specific beliefs clearly hook into these fears and desires. But what all of the research shows and what almost every ex-neo-Nazis says, they say that the ideology that was never what actually drew them to the movement. What drew them to the movement was the need to belong in the first place. Okay.
[00:14:19] Christian Picciolini, we had him on the show episode 317. He's been on a couple of times, actually. He wrote a book called Breaking Hate. We'll link to it in the show notes. That's exactly how he explains why he became a Neo-Nazi. He was the leader of one of the largest skinhead gangs in the United States, probably in the world. He talks about how he recruited so many people to the movement before he finally left. He didn't do it through ideology. He did it through vulnerability. He didn't hit people with a bunch of racist dogma. He lured them in with the promise of acceptance, period. And that actually squares with how you described your sister.
[00:14:54] You said that she hasn't done much research into the history of Nazism, obviously. She's into conspiracy theories. She follows her confirmation bias. That tells me she isn't really engaging deeply with her boyfriend's ideology. It's much more about subscribing to a community. We talk about this in the episode with Mick West. Gabe, if you could find out which episode number that is, Mick West on the show. Him and I talk about that episode, why it is much more about, "Oh, I know something other people don't." "Oh, we're in an underground community of people." It's all about community and belonging. And this guy, he makes her feel like she's part of something, even if it means losing her close friends and now maybe her family.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:15:36] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was episode 363.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:39] Okay. We'll link that in the show notes as well. Mick West, M-I-C-K West, not Nick, M-I-C-K, Mick. And your sister's case though, it's even more complicated because she's dating somebody who is super committed to this stuff. She's found a romantic partnership within the ideology, within the club, so to speak, which means it's probably serving her need to feel comforted and protected and special in a lot of different ways. Plus, she's been in this abusive relationship in the past that you mentioned, she doesn't believe in talking about it, whatever that means. So she's suppressing and repressing a ton of baggage, and there is a lot going on with your sister besides this past relationship or this latest relationship. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that. But it's worth calling it out because this is why you're having so much trouble getting through to her.
[00:16:23] My sense is that she doesn't want to be gotten through too, because if she did let you in, she would, I feel extremely exposed and probably pretty ashamed. Look, her best friend was black, the other best friend was Jewish. She knows this is bullshit. Okay. This sort of exposure. These are precisely the feeling she is trying to avoid by hitching her identity to this new Nazi moron, and possibly this movement of fascist dipshits that they hang out with, okay, online or elsewhere. So given all that, Gabe, how does she get through to her sister?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:16:54] Well, the short answer is that it's going to be really, really hard. And with your sister, I think it's going to be even harder because she's very, as Jordan pointed out, she's very defended. You know, she's not drawn to reasonable intellectual discussion. Plus she's falling for this guy. She doesn't want to lose him by even going near this stuff. I bet you're probably going to be threatening her source of love, her identity, her very sense of self. And in many ways, it's like talking to a cult member or a religious extremist, like we said, these movements share so many elements. There's just too much at stake for her to consider another point of view right now, anyway, but it is definitely worth trying.
[00:17:31] So here's how I would do it. In general. I would try to talk to her about what she's thinking and how she's feeling these days, rather than talking about the beliefs that she holds themselves, because of the beliefs. Those are going to be very hard to work on for all the reasons that we just said, but how she's feeling and what she's thinking. You know, that's something you might be able to make some progress on. You could ask her how her mood is these days, how work is going, what her relationship with this guy is like. Invite her to open up with you as much as she can, as much as she's willing to. And get her to talk about her experience without trying to attack the ideas that you find so distasteful. You will have to work very hard to not interrogate her or judge her in these conversations, which is difficult. Let's just acknowledge how hard that is. It will take some practice.
[00:18:13] If you can stay in that place of curiosity and empathy with her, I think you'll start to build some trust and rapport between the two of you. Something I bet she doesn't feel a lot of these days. And if she does eventually open up to you, then she'll also open a window for you both to look at some of her beliefs without threatening that whole sense of self. Hopefully what you'll start to reveal in these conversations is just how vulnerable she really is. Now you can guide her there, but I would be very gentle about it. It'll probably be pretty tempting to steer her to the conclusion that you want to hear, which is some version of, "Yeah, I'm terrified that I'm irrelevant. And my boyfriend gives me a sense of love and superiority," or, you know, "I'm too afraid to challenge his gross beliefs because then he might leave me." Right? Like, it's going to take some time for her to arrive at those conclusions. You have to resist the urge to push her there.
[00:18:58] But if you're patient with her, if you let her talk, if you mirror back what she's saying to her and help her along, she might eventually say something like, "I don't know, I don't really feel like I have a direction in life right now, or I never really felt understood until I met John this guy," or, "I have trouble making up my mind," something like that. And if you ask her to explore some of those comments and get to the root of them, she might eventually say something more fundamental, like, "I'm really lonely, or "I don't really know what I believe," or — and this is what I'm suspecting will eventually happen. She might say something like, "I just feel like there are very few people who will ever really love me."
Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:32] People don't seek out trash ass Neo-Nazism for relationships. They settle for them when they feel like they have no other options. That is what I think is going on here. She didn't go find this prince charming and go, "Oh crap. He's also a Neo-Nazi." She just found some bottom barrel guy who would pay attention to her. And she's like, "This is where I'm going to get my self-esteem," because she has low self-esteem, low self-worth. And then she goes, "This is the only guy that's going to like me. I have to take his flaws and all because he's taking my perceived flaws and all," and what she's thinking is, "I'm unlovable. This guy's going to love me. It doesn't matter if he's a Neo-Nazi. I have to play along with that because otherwise, I might lose him." That's what I think is really going on.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:20:13] Yeah. Let me not question, the beliefs too hard in case I drive him away/let me subscribe to the beliefs to keep him closer is probably the dynamics.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:20] Exactly, I mean look, it would be different if this person had racist beliefs, their whole life or early on. And then she finally met a partner in this group she was already in. This is a woman who had a black and Jewish best friend and then meets this dipstick on the Internet or whatever. And then suddenly it was like, "Yeah, I believe in all this Nazi stuff. I can't hang out with my friends anymore." That is just pure low self-esteem.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:20:43] And when you put it like that, it's encouraging because it means that she didn't have this very gradual and deep conversion to the beliefs, but that she quickly adopted them in the context of this one relationship.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:52] Exactly.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:20:52] So if you can drive her to this point in the conversation like I said, it's probably going to be several conversations over a longer period of time. But if you can get her to that point where she starts to acknowledge these more core beliefs, at that point, you could ask some follow-up questions like, "Do you think dating John makes you feel less lonely?" Or, "Is that why you've been reading up on all these theories online?" Theories, you can say you don't have to call them conspiracy theories, but you can ask her if that's why she reads up on them online. So, "Do you do that because you want to know what to believe?" You'll definitely want to keep asking questions rather than telling her what you think. So she doesn't feel attacked. That's the big thing she probably is avoiding in the conversation. But what you're really trying to do here is create a safe space for her to feel understood and to reflect on what she actually thinks, which he actually feels not, which he's been fed by someone else, or what she feels she has to believe, but what she really does believe.
[00:21:40] But you're also encouraging her to take responsibility for these views and to build a better relationship with you to build a stronger sense of self. The more you can draw her out and make her feel supported while she does that, the more I think she's going to provide the answers herself and that's what you really want because ultimately, that's the only way she's actually going to change. And if somewhere in here you could convince her to talk to a therapist. That would be huge because she has a lot of stuff to work through. Stuff that predates this latest boyfriend, and that is probably very old and complicated, I guess. Without that help, it will be pretty hard for her to see you yourself clearly and get better. So that's something to keep in mind. I wouldn't lead with that like, "Hey, you really need to talk to a shrink because this sh*t is cray." But if she does start to open up and realizes how difficult it is for her to wrestle and sort through all of this stuff, that would be a nice moment for you to say, "Hey, that's exactly why people talk to somebody. Have you ever thought about that?"
Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:29] Because the problem to me, Gabe, it sounds like her sister is not very willing to open up from the sound of it, right?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:22:33] Yeah, yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:34] This is like, she's not just going like, "Hey, I want your help getting away from this tough situation." She's like, "Look, man, I finally found somebody. Just leave me the f*ck alone." Right. That's kind of what I'm feeling.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:22:44] And that's why this is probably going to take a lot of work in patience on her part, the writer's part before this starts to pay off. Or the sister might never open up and if that happens, then you're going to have to let your sister hold the beliefs that she wants to hold and date the people that she wants to date. And you're going to have to bear the anger and the sadness that comes with allowing someone you love to do something that you profoundly disagree with. And that is where values and boundaries become really important. And a lot of deprogramming experts, they talk about this. How you have to be empathetic with people like this, how you have to be patient and you have to be understanding — yes, but how you also have to hold people accountable for their views and how you have to know what you will and will not tolerate from them. In other words, you have to balance your compassion for somebody with your integrity.
[00:23:27] So you might decide that you'll sit there very patiently while she yammers on about everything Hitler did for his country, how he helped start Krupp or whatever, and how they now make wonderful coffee makers that are in your kitchen or whatever.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:39] Is that really a German company? Is that where you got that from? I'd ever got that reference.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:23:42] I'm pretty sure that's a German company if I'm remembering high school.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:45] I just want to make sure we're not like slandering this poor company. That's like, "Dude, we are not Nazi.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:23:51] I'm not saying that Krupp is a Nazi company. I just think that I'm pretty sure they were founded — yeah, it's a 400-year-old German dynasty from essence. So, I'm going to say —
Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:59] So it was well before Hitler.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:24:02] Well, before Hitler, but I believe, I believe that that we're getting way off on a tangent now, but I think that they were pretty —
Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:07] I just don't want to get sued.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:24:08] Yeah. I think they were pretty powerful during the Nazi regime, but that's fine. I'm just saying you could sit there while she talks about that. But if she starts talking about how black people need to just get over it or how Jews invented the Holocaust, so they could move to America and take over the media or whatever, then you might decide you're going to call that out. Maybe you'll say, "Listen, I find what you're saying right now is extremely misguided, extremely hurtful. And I just hope you do some research before you say stuff like that," and then change the topic. Or you might say, "Look, I'm sorry, but I can't be part of this conversation." And then just politely leave the dinner table. You know, that's up to you. That's something you are going to have to decide for yourself, how much you're willing to put up with from her and her boyfriend if he comes to dinner. I don't know if he does, if he's welcome and how you want to handle that stuff when it arises, but whatever those boundaries are, whatever they are for you, that's really important. So I would take some time to get clear on them if your sister refuses to change.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:57] It's a look, who's coming to dinner 2020 version.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:24:59] Yeah, exactly.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:00] Like, "Look, who's coming to dinner? Oh my God. Is he black? No, he's a Nazi."
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:03] He is a Nazi.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:03] Wait! Like, it's the opposite.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:05] We're flipping the tropes on the head for this equal. Exactly.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:08] Yeah. Now the 2020 edition of that movie. Oh my God. Can you imagine the parents in this situation? Just being like, "So we hear, you think the Holocaust is made up? Do you like —?"
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:21] "Do you want to talk about that?"
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:23] "— green beans? Yeah. Okay. Who wants cheesecake? Yeah. What do you do?"
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:27] "I heard you guys went to a — was it a rally on your first date? How was that?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:31] Yeah. "What do you even do?" Like, no common ground whatsoever.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:35] So awkward.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:36] It's so awkward. The guy sounds dumb as hell if his defense is, "Hey, I'm not a Nazi. I just think he did good things for his country." It's like, have you read any history at all?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:45] I mean, that's such a shadow belief to hold. Like —
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:47] Yeah,
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:48] — that's something people say when they're smoke screening what they really believe. I think —
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:51] Of course.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:52] — I mean —
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:52] It has to be.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:53] — because you can be like — look, can we just acknowledge that they were really good at manufacturing? Nothing else that was all terrible, but they were really good about that. Like, that's so different from saying, "I really admire Hitler for what he did for his country."
Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:03] It just makes no sense.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:26:04] It doesn't make any sense.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:05] If you look at any objective history or any even — even history is written by people who are neo-Nazi — like that it was a calamity of epic proportions for the German people. And for everyone in Europe, period. There's no way to look at that. That rewrites that. There just isn't. No non-delusional way.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:26:25] Jordan, do you think that she should stay close to her sister even if the beliefs get really bad?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:30] Yeah. So I kind of wanted to chime in on that as a final thought. Like I would definitely stay close by waiting in the wings, right? Because the wheels are eventually going to fall off this crazy relationship. She needs to know that she hasn't lost you, that she has somewhere to turn because this is a person who already feels lonely. Hence, her dating this weirdo. If she feels like she's lost you and the rest of the family, there's going to be no escape from this guy who's potentially abusive. And I don't mean he beats her, maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But at the very least, somebody with this set of beliefs is going to be emotionally abusive, right?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:27:03] Yeah, yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:03] At the very least, there's going to be gaslighting and other kinds of crap happening.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:27:07] She should be the Catherine Oxenberg to her India Oxenberg.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:11] I will never understand your references. They're always way over my head
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:27:14] That's from The Vow. It's just wrapped up, it's final.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:17] Ah, I haven't seen that yet.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:27:18] Yeah, yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:19] Got it.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:27:19] It's that docu-series about NXIVM and there's a plotline about a mother trying to get her daughter out of this cult and it's heartbreaking
Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:25] Oh, the actress, right?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:27:27] Yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:27] I saw them interviewed, so, okay — so yes, you need to stay close by because if she loses everyone, she's going to wake up one day and be like, "I have to get out of here, but everyone hates me now."
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:27:37] Right.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:37] She has to know that you're still there even if you think her fake belief system that she's adopted as a bunch of crap, which it is. She does have to know that in the middle of the night, as much as you guys have fought over this, she can call you and you will come to pick her up and take her somewhere where this psycho can't come and find her. That's what she needs to know. Oh, so that was heavy.
[00:27:59] You're listening to Feedback Friday here on The Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back.
[00:28:03] This episode is sponsored in part by b8ta. I always want to be remembered as the guy who gives great gifts. And b8ta, this is such a fun store. They've got a chain of stores all over the place from New York to San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, you can go in there and ride those e-bikes you see all over the place, the one-wheel scooters, these little things. They got all these gadgets that you see advertised online from kitchen gadgets, office gadgets, fitness stuff, anything that you need for like meal prep or all these little Instagrammy kind of gadgets. They have them all there for you to look at, try, and even to buy. So this year I'm going to dominate some gift-giving, the gift-giving Olympics by going over to b8ta. You can go to b8ta in-store or online and save 20 bucks off just about anything. Find b8ta online at B-8-T-A.com. I see what you did there, or go to one of the stores, like I said, New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Boston. Use the code JORDAN in-store or online for 20 bucks off, just about anything. Check out b8ta. It's a really unique experience.
[00:29:01] This episode is also sponsored by Fiverr. 2020 has been the year of uncertainty. So how can your business plan for the unexpected and operate virtually? Finding the right talent can be time-consuming, frustrating, and expensive. It's difficult to keep up with the current best practices for maximizing your digital presence. Fiverr's global network of on-demand freelance talent is here to help whether you're launching your first business or scaling your current business. Whether you were in need of extra support to complete a project, or just trying to digitally optimize your business, you can find what you're looking for instantly. It's easy. Customize your search by service, deadline, price, seller reviews, and more. No more guessing games you'll know exactly what you're paying for upfront. No negotiating needed pricing is always project-based. It's not hourly and they've got 24/7 customer service. You can reach out with questions anytime, anywhere. We use Fiverr a lot to get sort of weird little tasks done, like little graphics or PowerPoint presentations or little tests for the Internet or web stuff. It's really, really handy for all that stuff. And I find myself using it multiple times per week. Jen.
Jen Harbinger: [00:30:02] Check out fiverr.com and receive 10 percent off your first order by using our code JORDAN. Find all the digital services you need in one place at fiverr.com, code JORDAN. Again, that's fiverr.com, code JORDAN.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:16] This episode is also sponsored by Better Help online counseling. If you think you may be depressed or you're feeling overwhelmed or anxious, Better Help online counseling offers licensed professional therapists who are trained to listen and help. They can help you with grief, depression, relationship stuff, anxiety, you simply fill out a questionnaire. They assess your specific needs and they match you up with a counselor in under 48 hours. You can use secure video or phone sessions, plus exchange unlimited messages to communicate with your therapist at your convenience. Everything you share is of course confidential. If you're unhappy with her counselor, you can request a new one at any time for no additional charge. Join the one million-plus people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced Better Help counselor.
Jen Harbinger: [00:30:57] Better Help is an affordable option. And our listeners get 10 percent off your first month with the discount code JORDAN. Get started today at betterhelp.com/jordan. Talk to a therapist online.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:09] And now back to Feedback Friday on The Jordan Harbinger Show.
[00:31:15] All right, what's next?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:31:16] Hi Jordan and team. I'm a 21-year-old female who recently completed a degree in theoretical mathematics, which is every bit of its word as it sounds. I've been working with a recruiter and just got approved to become a surface warfare officer in the US Navy. If all goes as planned, I should attend officer candidate school in a couple of months and be on a ship as a Naval officer before my 22nd birthday. I'm a people person with a large and diverse network. And I am stoked at the social and professional possibilities that the Navy holds. Here's the catch, I don't drink. I am a deeply religious person who quit drinking about a month ago. I don't believe there's anything morally wrong with it, but I've decided to hold myself to a higher moral standard, something like a stoic vow. My first question is how do I explain this to my future Naval companions in a way that is concise, honest, and not condescending. I own my quirky personality, but the last thing I want is to come across as judgmental. I don't want to give a cop-out answer. Like, "I can't have just one or it's a medical issue." Those aren't true and paint me in a negative light. And obviously, I'm not going to say, "Well, you see, I made this vow to God," because that's weird and awkward. And frankly, no one cares. What should I say? My second question is how do I keep up with my peers socially and professionally without going drinking with them? I turned 21 in quarantine and I'm virtually illiterate in bar culture. Is it acceptable to go to a bar and just get coffee or soda water? Is it realistic for me to plan on being a perennial DD? Thanks so much, Teetotaler or T, Totally Lame.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:45] So DD, designated driver, right?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:32:47] Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:49] Okay. Well, first of all, huge congrats on all of these incredible accomplishments, theoretical math degree at 21, Naval officer before you're 22, serious about relationship building from a super young age. I mean, I love this. You should be really excited about your career. That's ahead of you. I don't even know you. I'm already super proud of you. So look, I'm probably not the most qualified person to give you advice about being a Teetotaler seeing as I'm answering this question with a High Noon, hard seltzer in my hand, but I'm not a full-blown alkie okay. I go through long periods, aka the rest of the week, and for months at a time when I don't drink at all. And I normally don't drink really myself, which is, I think that's important. And I actually really love that because I'm not Paris Hilton circa 2009. I think I can share some advice here.
[00:33:36] Basically. I think you're maybe overthinking how much you need to defend your non-drinking. Yes, it's probably out of the norm, especially in the Navy where a lot of people tend to drink to unwind and deal with the stress and probably also the boredom. But it's not completely unheard of to not drink and I don't think that's something that will get in your way. You're right though, the way you handle this, that's going to play a role in how people respond to it. And if you come across as judgy finger waggy, your fellow officers might think you're a judgy prig who thinks she's better than everyone else. You really don't want that. If you don't say anything at all, they might assume you're a little bit of a passive-aggressive killjoy who isn't one of the guys. So I think you need to come up with something short and direct that walks the line, but not in a way. That sounds like you're defending your choice too much because you really don't have to. What about something like, "I used to drink, but I just don't like the way it makes me feel," because that's true in the sense that you really don't like how it makes you feel morally and religiously, but it doesn't force you to go into the whole story. It doesn't sound good judgmental at all. It's really just about what you prefer.
[00:34:42] I admire her how much you want to answer this question? Honestly, I think that also says a lot about you because the real easy answer is, "Oh, it runs — alcoholism runs in my family. I got to be careful. No, thank you." But since you're not doing that, you really want to tell the truth. There's something to that. The truth is anything short of, "I don't drink because the good Lord told me not to. And I'm trying to walk his glorious path," is not going to be the whole story. So I think you'll have to get comfortable with sharing a version of yourself here. That is true enough for you to say, without feeling like you're compromising your integrity. You know, me, I'm not religious at all. If you've been listening to the show, you know me, but I respect that you are, and I respect that you want to adhere to those beliefs. And even if you said you don't drink because you hate it and it's evil, that's your prerogative as well. And I don't think anybody should judge you for that either.
[00:35:25] If somebody pushes you to drink after that, you could say, "Look, no, trust me. I've tried it. It is just not my thing." If you say that all with a smile and zero judgment, most people are going to leave you alone. And if you feel like they feel awkward about it, you can always throw something in like, "Hey, it doesn't bother me if you all want to drink, honestly. Enjoy that beer. We can still totally hang. I'm actually more fun when I'm sober. Trust me. It's all downhill from here." You know, just have a laugh about it, make sure they know you're not judging them. I think that's even more important, which like you said, you're not really judging them in the first place.
[00:35:59] Gabe, what about the second question here? I know you don't drink really at all, right?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:36:02] Yeah, not very often, but I enjoy it from time to time, but it is a good question. How do you keep up with your peers without going drinking with them? Yeah, absolutely. You can totally order a coffee or a Canada dry at the bar or whatever. A few people might notice and ask you about it. A few of them might even be ribbed you a little bit just knowing how military people like to rag on each other for fun. But if you explain it with that simple line that Jordan just shared and you don't judge them, then I think you're going to be totally fine.
[00:36:25] But you know, what is interesting? I get the sense from this letter that she thinks that she has to drink in order to be liked by her peers or in order to belong, which look, I get it. It's the military, you're young, it makes sense that you would think that I'm sure that there's an element of that. That is true. But I wonder if you feel like people won't want to be your friend or won't take you seriously if you're not exactly like them in every single way, it's not enough that you're super smart and driven and interesting and respectful, which you clearly are. Like if you don't shoot a bunch of Jim Beam with them, they'll ice you out or something. And I'm not saying some people won't do that, maybe they will, but those people will not be part of your tribe. Like they're just not people you really have to worry about.
[00:37:02] But as you think about how to have this conversation, try not to put too much stock in the whole drinking thing. I think you might be discounting who you are as a person, as you try to figure out how to fit in with these new people. Because your peers, they're not going to respond to you just based on whether you get cranked with them every weekend. They're going to respond to you as a person. They're going to respond to you as a leader. So don't be afraid to share that personality with them, teetotaling and all. The more you feel like you need to hide, you know, or apologize for who you are, the more people are going to pick up on that. And that ultimately is going to be a bigger obstacle to building good relationships with them than just being different in this one, ultimately minor way.
[00:37:38] Other than that, I think you have an amazing career ahead of you. Like I'm so excited for this person. Her letter was dope. She has an amazing background. She has a cool career heading up. I'm excited. And I think not drinking is probably only going to help her, it's not going to hurt her.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:50] There's no part of me that says, I wish I drank more at any point in my life. In fact, I didn't even drink that much in college. I started drinking when I started running my old company because that's what all the guys who worked in the company were doing all the time. And then I was like, "Hey, this is bad for me, but this is literally all we do. So I guess I got to do it." And then I was like, "Oh, I do this all the time to get over anxiety." And then I told my mom about some quote-unquote funny drinking stories and she's like, "You know, we have massive alcoholic problems in our family. Like my grandfather, great grandfather dah, dah, dah." And I was like, "No." And she's like, "Yeah, you, falling asleep on a car — not funny. Like, that's not a funny thing that happens."
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:38:27] Wow.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:27] That particular instance was kind of funny, but things like that are not funny.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:38:31] Yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:31] You know? So now I'm like, I'm a one or two hard seltzer kind of guy. And when people are like, "Dude, do shots with us." I'm like, "You don't want Jordan after shots. It's not like fun. It's not wild Jordan. It's like —" and I don't get aggressive or anything. I'm just kind of like cranky and I'm like, "Where's the freaking booze." You know, like I turned into like some version of some dead relative. I have I'm sure who was really a bastard, you know, like a drunk bastard kind of guy. And again, I'm not aggressive, but it's not the finest version of myself. It's not the funniest version of myself. So if that's the version you're trying to avoid. You're not going to lose out on any fun. There's so much fun to be had sober waking up in a good mood is always good. We're making up before 11:00 a.m. is always nice. You know, you get a lot more time in your day and you don't do things you have to apologize for later on, generally. So good luck.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:39:19] So true, especially in the Navy where I bet your sleeping schedule is all off. You're probably like grabbing sleep wherever you can get it. You're waking up at odd hours. You have to be responsible for a ton of stuff. Like, no, thank you. I don't want to have to deal with a hangover —
Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:32] Amen to that.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:39:32] — on top of all that. Yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:34] Absolutely. All right. What's next?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:39:36] Hey guys, I'm the best man at my friend's wedding, he has planned a bachelor party in Arizona next month, and I'm having massive anxiety about attending. My fiancée is in the middle of her graduate program and has a six-week clinical that would be occurring at the same time as the bachelor party. If she were to get sick during this time, she would have to push back graduating for an entire year. We have discussed quarantining myself from her, but there are no easy solutions. I'd really like to talk to the groom about not going to the bachelor party due to my immense discomfort, as well as not potentially jeopardizing my fiancée’s clinical. The groom and his future wife have not taken this pandemic seriously from the jump. And they have not been able to comprehend why we have been so cautious this entire time. What should I do? If I do decide to not attend the bachelor party, how can I let the groom know without potentially ruining our friendship? Signed, Not a Stan of This Madman Stag Plan.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:27] Whew, boy, well, I am sorry that you're in this situation. Having to choose between attending your friend's bachelor party and being able to breathe normally for the rest of your life. There are a lot of people in your shoes right now. I've had to turn down invitations to trips and parties, and a few people have gotten pretty mad at me. I know other people who have been afraid to turn down invitations and then they caught the Rona. So you are not crazy. This has got to be one of the hardest parts of the pandemic. Staying close to people who have a very different attitude towards quarantine and caution and medical advice and science. It's tough. I get it.
[00:41:03] So here's my take, if you don't want to go to this bachelor party, do not go. It is absolutely fair for you to skip it. More than that, it's probably the right thing to do. Your friend might take issue with that, but that is his problem, man. You have to do what is right for you and for your fiancée. You have several great reasons to not go. You don't want to get sick yourself. You don't want to pass it on to your fiancée and compromise her education. This isn't about you guys being down for a week maybe. That raises the stakes significantly, Gabe, I think.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:41:31] Yes.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:31] Because it's like, if she gets sick, it's another year where she cannot earn money.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:41:35] Exactly.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:35] Think about all that lost salary and that lost time and having to study and keep her studies up during that year so that she can do the clinical again so that you can go to Vegas for three days. No, no, no, no. You don't want to be another vector in this pandemic, especially as new hotspots emerge, the trajectory is worsening around the country, around the world according to the latest data. You can point to all of these and be secure in your decision. You can't point these to your friend because they don't seem to care and take it seriously. But that's what makes this the hardest part, right? Dealing with the groom's reaction. So how do you let him know without ruining your friendship? Well, I'd call him or write him in an email, telling him why you can't come to the bachelor party, tell them how badly you want to be there, how much you are looking forward to it, how difficult this decision was for you and tell them that you don't expect them to agree with you, that you respect that he wants to handle this differently. But that for you, it's just not a risk that you can take right now.
[00:42:29] I wouldn't get into a discussion about how the virus works or the pandemic data or anything like that. He obviously doesn't know, doesn't care. Just tell him that you'd be kicking yourself if you got COVID because of the trip. Definitely mentioned your fiancée and her clinical, that should take some of the heat off of you. Tell him you love him. Tell him that you're thrilled to be part of his wedding, but you just cannot hit an indoor steakhouse or a casino and a strip club in downtown Phoenix, whatever it is in the middle of the panty-D. Also, don't use the phrase panty-D. I think I went too far right there. Anyway —
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:43:02] I'm proud of you for going there. Yeah, that's my stance on that. It sounded so good coming out of your mouth. When I read on the Internet, I cringe, but I love that
Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:11] I just committed right there.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:43:12] That was great.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:13] Anyway, after that reiterate that you're looking forward to the wedding. You're looking forward to planning tons of trips together when the pandemic is over. And if you do that, it'll be really hard for him to get mad at you. You're not defending your position. You're not judging him. You're not dropping him as a friend. You're just saying that you can't go on this trip. I would understand this if I were in his shoes, maybe he's less understanding. If he turns on you for that, there are deeper issues in the friendship you'll need to sort out, but I am hoping that you can both accept each other enough to keep your friendship, even if you disagree. I mean, assuming you still want to be friends with this guy, I'm sure differences in opinion about the pandemic are probably the leading cause of friendship breakups right now, which makes sense. But this is not a lifestyle choice. This is a question of values.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:43:56] Yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:56] Gabe, anything else? What am I leaving out here?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:43:58] No. Excellent advice. I hundred percent agree. What I'm wondering is what happens at the wedding? When is that? Is that going to be safe? Like, is it going to be in an outdoor botanical garden somewhere or a poorly ventilated party room, you know, in some Phoenix restaurant or something like that?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:13] VFW?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:44:13] I don't know. Like, are you planning — is this guy planning on attending the wedding? Because that worries me just as much or more than the bachelor party, but if he's agonizing about how to decline the bachelor party. Then he's probably going to have a real tough time dropping out of the wedding. Right? Unless he goes for like 15 minutes and does a killer best man toast about the dangers of COVID and gives Dr. Fauci a shout out, drops the mic, and bounces like that would be a pretty epic speech.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:35] Yeah. That's going to put the cap on the end of that friendship, I think, right there.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:44:38] I mean, is this like a, so the party that's happening in the next three weeks, then the weddings and 18 months after there's a vaccine or is this these two things coming right after? I mean, I don't know. There's a larger conversation coming, I think here, but as far as the bachelor party goes, 100 percent, if you don't want to go do not go and you're in the right. You're good.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:00] This Jordan harbinger show. And this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back.
[00:45:04] This episode is sponsored in part by Manscaped. Manscaped has taken over the world and is now available in all of Europe, Canada, the UK, and Australia, world domination. Europe's about to get a lot less hairy. That's right. If you live in the EU or Canada, you can purchase Manscaped products. If you live there, you've gone years without using the right tools for the job. In fact, if you live in Europe, there's a good chance, you've just never tried to use any tools for the job. If stereotypes are to be had for anything. Australia too, you guys can now order these down under to use down under. If you haven't tried their Lawn Mower 3.0, their electric trimmer, you've been missing out. It's the greatest ball hair trimmer on planet earth according to a lot of folks, including myself. I haven't used a ton of different ball hair trimmers, but you get the idea. Drains around the world are to be clogged up. Thanks to the Weed Wacker nose and ear hair trimmer and the Lawn Mower 3.0. Get 20 percent off, plus free shipping with code JORDAN10 at manscaped.com. That's 20 percent off plus free shipping with the code JORDAN10 at manscaped.com.
[00:46:06] This episode is also sponsored in part by OxiClean. When Jayden, my son, pooped in our sheets and we just sprayed that OxiClean Max Force on it. We let it sit for a few days. It washed right out. And this was no ordinary baby booty either. This was a cherry poop, pits, and all right. If OxiClean Max Force can get that out, I'll use it on anything. It even works on dried-in stains. And also, it's not just for white clothes or sheets, but on any color that you can stain, which after having a kid I've learned is all colors. So even if you don't have kids and you just got to stay in on your clothes — I mean, my kid has gotten stains on his clothes. He's gotten stains on my clothes and I've thrown out a couple of shirts. And I know what you're thinking, just get rid of the kids. Well, now, you don't have to, because you can try OxiClean Max Force, spray it on there. Get the stain out. You've got it. OxiClean Max Force for yourself. To work your magic with OxiClean go to oxiclean.com/maxforce to get a coupon for a dollar off. That's O-X-I-C-L-E-A-N.com/maxforce to get a coupon for a buck off.
[00:47:07] This episode is also sponsored in part by NetSuite. If you're a business owner, you don't need us to tell you that running a business is tough, but you might be making it harder on yourself than necessary. Don't let QuickBooks and spreadsheets slow you down anymore. It's time to upgrade to NetSuite. We've been using this for a while over here. My network uses it. It puts everything in one place. You know, a lot of the different dashboards and all these little displays and systems that don't talk to each other. You got to stop paying for multiple systems that don't give you the information you need when you need it. Ditch those spreadsheets, ditch all that old software that's not cloud-based or that doesn't talk to each other. Upgrade to NetSuite by Oracle. It's the world's number one cloud business system. You get visibility and control over your financials, HR, inventory, e-commerce. So whether you're doing a million or hundreds of millions in revenues, save time, save money with NetSuite.
Jen Harbinger: [00:47:53] Let NetSuite show you how they'll benefit your business with a free product tour at netsuite.com/jordan. Schedule your free product tour right now at netsuite.com/jordan netsuite.com/jordan.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:06] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going, who doesn't love some good products and/or services. You can always visit jordanharbinger.com/deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the show. And now for the conclusion of feedback Friday.
[00:48:24] All right, last but not least.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:48:26] Hey guys, I've been doing the networking exercises from Six-Minute Networking and some of them have resulted in longer emails and back and forth reconnecting with older friends. I'm extremely happy to be making the connections, especially during COVID. My question is, is there a good way to recommend the Six-Minute Networking course to these friends and connections without being weird and giving up the game that Six-Minute Networking is why I started reaching out in the first place? On one hand, I feel like it's an unfair advantage that I want to keep to myself, but on the other, I feel like it's too valuable not to share. What are your thoughts? Signed, Chance to Invest, or Close to the Vest?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:02] First of all, nicely done on running with the course and making all those connections. That is fantastic. I love that Six-Minute Networking is now this secret, superpower that people have to decide whether or not to share. But, you know, great relationship building, it really is kind of a superpower. There are people who get how powerful it is to have a killer network. And there are people who don't and those people are playing by a completely different set of rules. So I get why you're torn about whether to let them in on the secret. Should you share the course with people? Well, here's how I think about it. One of the overarching principles of relationship building, at least how I do it is generously investing in the people around you. If sharing Six-Minute Networking with somebody is a form of investment in them, which it is then that can only be a good thing. You're helping them get better. They're helping other people get better. Both of your networks grow. Now, you're both part of each other's circles. So they owe that to you. It's a win all around. You both increase your circles. The collective circle is bigger.
[00:49:59] That said before you share the course with everyone you meet, you might want to make sure that they're actually interested in upping their networking game in your conversations. You can feel out how they're doing. Are they totally unaware of how important relationship building is? Are they decent networkers, but they want to take it to the next level? Are they trying to find a new job and struggling, but they don't know why? If so, then you can say, "Listen, I found out about this online course. It's totally free. I think you'd love it. It really helped me. Here's the link." I think that might go over better than just sending the URL to every person that you're in touch with. And besides people who actually want to improve, even if they don't quite know how those people will respond to your investment, more positively, as opposed to people who aren't really interested and then they open the link and they go, "Ugh, this is why she reached out. She's following some courses. She's trying to get me to sign up for this course, whatever. No, thanks."
[00:50:48] So the bottom line is sharing your networking strategies is never a zero-sum game. That's kind of the point. There's no way you lose when someone else builds better relationships. To me, it's just like teaching someone a skill or sharing insight with them. They're better for it. You're better for it because you help them grow. So share away, just do it with people who share your interest or could share your interest in building the best relationships possible.
[00:51:13] Hope you all enjoy that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Go back and check out the guests from this week. The two-parter we did with the former mafia enforcer, Anthony Salvatore Luciano Raimondi. Have a listen if you haven't yet.
[00:51:25] If you want to know how I got all of these guests on the show, it's all about the network. We just talked about Six-Minute Networking. That course is free. It's over on the Thinkific platform, jordanharbinger.com/course. Don't wait. Dig the well before you get thirsty, once you need relationships, you're too late to call on them. You got to do them early, man. Come on these drills, take a few minutes a day. Ignore it at your own peril. I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago. This has been crucial to my business and my personal life. It's all for free jordanharbinger.com/course.
[00:51:53] A link to the show notes for this episode are found at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. There's a video of this Feedback Friday episode going up on the YouTube channel at jordanharbinger.com/youtube. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram or just hit me on LinkedIn. You can also find Gabe on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi or on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi.
[00:52:16] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My amazing team includes Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course Gabe Mizrahi keeps sending in those questions to email@example.com. Our advice and opinions and those of all the guests on the show are their own. And I'm a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And remember, we rise by lifting others. So share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.
[00:52:56] I wanted to give you a preview of one of my favorite stories from an earlier episode of the show, Megan Phelps-Roper. She used to belong to one of the most hateful religious cults in America, the Westboro Baptist Church. She was born into this church and she later escaped. To hear her tell the story firsthand is really incredible.
Megan Phelps-Roper: [00:53:15] I started protesting when I was five years old, but even at that first picket, there was a sign that said, "Gays are Worthy of Death." So God hates fags is what Westboro's message that we became known for. We were the good guys and everyone outside the church was evil and going to hell. And we had the only message that would bring the world any hope. We had to go and warn people. These terrible things are happening. And if you want this pain to stop, then you have to change because God isn't going to change.
[00:53:44] After the September 11 attacks, we had the sign that said, "Thank God for September 11." What were we thinking? This massive crowd comes down. We were at this corner of this intersection of these three streets. By the time they actually reach us, we're just enraged. There was no space between us and them. It got really dicey. One of my cousins gave his signs to somebody else and like started standing on top of a trash can pretending like he wasn't with us. They were again, incredibly intense because obviously, the circumstances are so sobering. It brings me incredible sadness to think about now. I can do this forever.
[00:54:20] My family, they would refuse to have any contact with me at all once I left. Somebody that we had confided in, sent a letter to my parents and told them that we were planning to leave. And then that email came in and we left.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:36] For more with Megan, including the details of her harrowing experience and escape, check out episode 302 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.
[00:54:47] And don't forget everybody if you want to catch us live, go to the app store, get the Stereo app that's iOS or Android, Stereo. Gabriel Mizrahi and I are doing live Deep Dives every Friday, November 6, 13, 20, and 27, November 6, 13, 20, and 27 at 2:00 p.m. Pacific. You can submit your questions. You can talk directly to us and you can listen in as we record Deep Dives on various topics of this show. Looking forward to hearing from you in the Stereo app.
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