1097: Husband’s Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday

1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, handsome boy number one, Jordan Harbinger. Uh, as always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, I guess you know, handsome boy number two, Gabriel Mizrahi. Yeah. Can't forget the pecking order. God, no, you cannot. HB one over here gets one nickname HB two, and if you don't know what we're talking about, go back a few weeks and hear the story of the, probably the weirdest compliment and definitely the most awkward hug of my life On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from drug traffickers and arms dealers, astronauts and national security advisors, war correspondents, and neuroscientists. This week we had Ali Abdal.

He's a big YouTuber. If you don't know him, he interviewed me on productivity parenting, actually quite a bit more, but it's like a three hour long show. We cut it down and uploaded it into our feed as well. On Fridays though, we tell stories, take listener letters, offer advice, and put Gabe in his proper place in the Hansen Boy hierarchy.

I guess that's right. But you know what, Gabe, as far as headshot are concerned, your headshot would put you, I hate to say it slightly above me in the handsome boy hierarchy. I gotta get your headshot guy.

[00:01:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, go to my headshot guy. Then you'll be what? A handsome boy. Zero.

[00:01:19] Jordan Harbinger: Handsome boy. Zero. Is that, does that, is that how that works?

Handsome boy? Zero.

[00:01:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know. I don't know. The handsome boy hierarchy though, is getting more and more real. The H-B-H-H-B-H.

[00:01:30] Jordan Harbinger: So this is our last show of the year and man, what a year it was. We're gonna take a few questions like we always do, and then we'll do something a little different and share a few words about what 2024 meant to us.

I also, full disclosure here, I took a pain pill because I am in some pain. Nothing to worry about, folks. I'm sure it'll be fine by the time you hear this. An email me.

[00:01:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Why are you pretending like they don't know why you're in pain? You talked about this last week.

[00:01:51] Jordan Harbinger: Well, right. I mean, it's vasectomy pain, but like you're supposed to be able to take Tylenol and everything's fine.

That, that hasn't been the case for me.

[00:01:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, I see. You didn't, you didn't want people to know that you upgraded to Oxy.

[00:02:01] Jordan Harbinger: That's right. I basically, I took an Oxycontin. I've never tried it before. I am a little nervous about what that might entail for the balance of feedback. Friday and I took it about 10 minutes ago, so I guess we'll see what happens.

I hate Oxycontin. Really? I've never, again, I've never tried it, so I don't know what to expect.

[00:02:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: It makes me like bitter and, and my, my temper gets really short and I just kind of snap if I just not, I don't understand. Damnit, Gabe, stop. Stop rambling. We have a show to do. Oh shoot. I took it when I got shoulder surgery and I was, I suddenly became like this really crotchety person.

I was like, what is going on right now? Oh yeah. I took a weird pain pill.

[00:02:36] Jordan Harbinger: Aren't opiates supposed to make you euphoric? What the hell? Yeah.

[00:02:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: You're supposed to like, it's like low key heroin. It's supposed to be nice and fun. Geez. But it's not, not for me. I just don't feel great on it.

[00:02:46] Jordan Harbinger: Well, I guess we'll see what happens here.

Before we kick off though, super weird story to share with you guys. Someone tried to run Jen off the road more than once, and we think it has to do with our license plate that we previously had,

[00:02:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: which is like you have like an Elon Musk related license plate, right?

[00:03:02] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So years ago, and I mean this is probably like seven plus years ago now, Jen was like, Hey, should we get Elon fan as our license plate?

Because we basically bought our vehicle with Tesla stock profits. 'cause we, we invested a little bit early in Tesla and I was like, oh, that's really funny. Get it. And then as Elon became, you know, before he, he bought Twitter, everything was fine. And then now, then he bought Twitter and it's like, okay, he's.

Sort of talking too much in public. And then now he's, and

[00:03:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: now he's advisor to President Trump,

[00:03:30] Jordan Harbinger: Donald Trump. So it's very polarizing. Especially here. So people are upset. Yeah, people are very polar. So people have like been giving her the finger honking, cutting her off in traffic break, checking her. Wow.

And she's like, what's going on with the Road Ridge these days? And then someone tried to run her actually off the road in a very aggressive way. I terrified. Yeah. Really scared. And the, and the kids were in the car. So I was like, okay. So she's like, I'm going to the DMV right now. Yeah. Probably the right move.

She should have gone to the police. 'cause we have dash cams.

[00:03:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh yeah, why not?

[00:03:57] Jordan Harbinger: So she goes to AAA or the DMV or whatever it was, and she surrenders the plate. They're like, oh, why are you surrendering this great plate? It's really clever. And she's like, well, here's what happened. And they're like, oh my gosh.

So they gave her a generic plate and they also said that somebody else came back that week and they had to do something and get a new plate because they had, their kid had had a terminal illness or some kind of crazy illness. And the Zuckerberg Foundation ended up treating and I think putting their kid into remission.

So they had all these Mark Zuckerberg stickers on their car and plate somehow, and people were vandalizing the car. Oh, wow. So they took all that stuff off and changed their license plate.

[00:04:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's so crazy.

[00:04:37] Jordan Harbinger: You know, if you get that upset by the references to these people, your world is just way too small.

Is that a fair thing to say, Gabriel, because mm-hmm. Look, there's a lot of people that I don't love if, if someone had a Vladimir Putin license plate, I wouldn't waste. I'd think they were an idiot, but I wouldn't waste any time running them off the road. If anything, I'd be like, wow, why did you choose to get that?

That's a choice. If anything, I

[00:05:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: would be afraid that they are gonna run me

[00:05:03] Jordan Harbinger: off. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Nice Bashar Alad license plate. Maybe I'll switch lanes. I'm not thinking I've gotta harass this person that I don't know. It's just such a weird choice. Who has the time and the inclination? That's what I don't get.

If you're triggered by that stuff, it's just very bizarre. You're way too sensitive and your world is just way too small. So I just thought that was crazy. I've never dealt with anything like that, but it's just another manifestation of how divided we are as a country, but divided in many ways by stuff that probably is just too dumb to really get worked up about.

There's a lot to be upset about right now, I suppose, but actually getting upset by someone's license plate kind of makes you a dip, shit. Mm-hmm. I can't see any other way around it. Alright. Gabe, what's the first thing outta the mailbag?

[00:05:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sorry, gimme one second. I'm just, uh, finishing this order on this Kim Jong and Vanity plate.

Oh

[00:05:50] Jordan Harbinger: yeah. Yes. Yeah. Kim Jong and Vanity. Does it fit though? Kim? Limited edition. Jong. I think you can just get Kim Jong. I don't think the rest of it'll fit.

[00:05:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, it's actually like a whole, it's comes with a license plate rack around it and says would rather be genocide. Okay. So just gimme one sec. God Terrible.

I wonder if Rocket Man is

[00:06:06] Jordan Harbinger: taken.

[00:06:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't

[00:06:06] Jordan Harbinger: think

[00:06:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: that'll fit, but you could probably make it work. Lil rocket man. Lil rocket man. L-I-L-R-K-T-M-N.

[00:06:12] Jordan Harbinger: Actually that's not bad. See if that's taken.

[00:06:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Alright. Alright, let's do it. Hello, Jordan and Gabe. About three months ago, my husband went to a networking event that was held on a Friday night at a hotel here in our city.

He works in the construction slash drilling industry, so networking events are far and few between. When I asked what type of function is held on a Friday night at 6:00 PM in a hotel penthouse, he said he agreed that it was unusual, but perhaps it was the only time everyone could make it. So I shrugged it off.

But it still didn't sit right with me. As the night rolled on, I texted my husband to ask how it was going and he sent some pictures of food and said it was fine. Lots of men. I offered to pick him up if he ended up drinking and he said not to worry that there would be free uber rides for everyone there.

[00:06:57] Jordan Harbinger: Gabe, let me advise you. Uh, if my wife asks me how the party is and I take pictures of food and then I say, Hey, by the way, there's just lots of men here. So many men. That is so sus just that I know you didn't really ask, but it's mostly just men. There's just lots of men.

[00:07:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's a lot of men and a lot of jalapeno poppers.

That's right. No, I'm going on Do not disturb and I'll be back in a few. Yeah. Bad

[00:07:16] Jordan Harbinger: service in here though. That's the downside to this $10 million penthouse. Anyway,

[00:07:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: my husband and I are very close and there's little, we don't share with each other, so knowing he was out drinking without me didn't bother me much until it was 11:00 PM and there was no message from him.

Midnight rolls around and now I'm starting to have questions. So I texted again and that's when he said, well, all the waitresses here have now taken off their tops and some have taken off their bottoms too.

[00:07:44] Jordan Harbinger: Interesting. Share. I don't know if I would've done that. I think I would've said coming home soon and maybe left it at that.

[00:07:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, actually I'm confused. Is this why you were concerned about there being a lot of men or did you think there being a lot of men meant something else?

[00:07:57] Jordan Harbinger: No, no. I just thought like if you say How's the party? And I say Lot of men, that's just sus, why are you thinking about that? I would say, ah, the food and the drinks are not that good.

Or like, ah, it's a little slow. Or The view from this place is great. I wouldn't be like, oh, the gender balance of this party is a bit of a sausage fest. Okay, got it. Didn't ask.

[00:08:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, now you know why. Yeah, he continued. Things just got really awkward and they just opened the doors to this back room and a lot of men are getting up and going back there with some of the waitresses I didn't realize, but the coasters on all the tables did indicate the company catering the event was some topless service, unquote.

[00:08:30] Jordan Harbinger: This reminds me of Chris Rock did putting a date on myself here. There's no sex in the champagne room. Remember that from like 1998?

[00:08:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm. No sex in the penthouse room.

[00:08:38] Jordan Harbinger: No sex in the penthouse room. Yeah. This is so, so for the record, this is not what, I mean when I say dig the well before you all get thirsty, that's, that's not what I'm talking about.

[00:08:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: I, this guy might have been thirsty, but this is a very different, well, mm-hmm. So she goes on all my bad feelings were now confirmed and I was very upset. I asked him if he was coming home and he said yes. Soon, 45 minutes later, I finally saw his location start to move as he made his way back home.

[00:09:03] Jordan Harbinger: 45 minutes.

How many lap dances fit into 45 minutes. Aren't they like one song each? I don't know. It's been a while. That's a lot of lap dances. Yeah. I'm leaving soon. Are

[00:09:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: you filling our head? I'm just,

[00:09:12] Jordan Harbinger: I'm really enjoying these jumbo shrimp. Doing some great networking over here with Mercedes from Consensual Catering.

[00:09:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I don't know why they made us put on condoms when we checked in. I thought it was just like a networking hygiene thing.

[00:09:25] Jordan Harbinger: Look, we're

[00:09:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: giving

[00:09:26] Jordan Harbinger: this woman nightmare

[00:09:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: fuel. We're obviously just having a laugh. I know. Why are we doing that? Yeah. You really have nothing to worry about there. There were no jumbo shrimp at this party.

There's no jumbo shrimp that we're

[00:09:36] Jordan Harbinger: exaggerating. Nah. Okay, so he got there at what? 6:00 PM. Then he comes home at one. Oh, that's a lot. He was there for seven hours. Seven hours. That is one hell of a mixer. You don't get that at the learning annex.

[00:09:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: My goodness. When he got home, he said that he couldn't leave because it quote would've been rude, unquote, that he had no idea it was this type of event.

This was all new to him too, that as soon as the women took off their clothes, he started making moves to head out. That quote, this is just how men do things sometimes, and that if someone wants to go to the strip club, that's just what you have to do in business unquote. He also said, if you're that one guy that says you will not go, you will not make that work connection and you could lose out on contracts.

[00:10:18] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Okay. That would've been rude. Yeah, my look, sorry, but my penis is gonna be super upset if I leave right now. So

[00:10:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: dude, you are like filling her head with the worst possible scenario here. You don't know that he did any of this. Blame it on the drugs. Yeah, this is the oxy toin right now.

[00:10:34] Jordan Harbinger: Look, to be fair, he might not be a hundred percent wrong about losing out on stuff.

This is, this is a thing, especially in male dominated industries. He's in construction drilling. It's skeezy and it's weird, but I heard it's a real thing. In fact, a friend of mine who is a dancer, uh, of the kind that you're imagining, she told me that their biggest week in Vegas was not New Year. It wasn't the Super Bowl, it was World of Concrete, which is a massive, massive construction conference in Vegas.

One of the biggest ones. She said that's the one where it's just like off the hook and you make like, you know, 50 grand in the weekend or whatever it is. Damn. Yeah.

[00:11:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well it's interesting. When I was in consulting, we had to do ethics training every year, and I remember they explicitly told us that we could not go to a strip club and expense it to the client or really go at all like, you can do this stuff as part of, you know, socializing around work whatsoever.

Because, you know, it generally excludes women and it just, it's like weird and inappropriate. But the way they said it to us in training, you knew partners had done it a bunch in the past and they had to say something about it.

[00:11:35] Jordan Harbinger: Right. And it also makes me wonder. You guys can't go to a strip club and then expense it to the client.

Uh, okay, so we can go, but we can't write it off. We have to spend our own money. Like there, there's just a guy in the front row raising his hand, like, let me clar, I need a clarification.

[00:11:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, no. My memory is they, they were like, not definitely do not expense it to the client, but also don't do this with the team.

This is not like a team bonding, legitimate team bonding experience. Got

[00:11:59] Jordan Harbinger: it. Okay. Well look, this stuff used to happen in the law too at the law firm, especially at the higher levels where it's, a lot of times it's a boys club and certain firms are also very much more like the boys than other firms, depending on the size and how old the firm is and stuff like that.

That's what's dicey about it because it really does exclude women. Either they're not invited to this bonding experience, this very weird and kind of sad bonding experience in my opinion. Look, it's a bonding experience nonetheless. Or they're invited and then they're put in this awkward position of either having to decline, which makes them look like a wet blanket.

Exactly. Although it's understandable, like maybe, maybe Janelle doesn't wanna go to the strip club with us, but then they might be iced out or miss out on certain conversations, or they don't want to. When guys are talking about it on Monday, they're like, oh, Janelle's coming. Don't say anything. So, yeah.

And the other scenario is, this happened at my law firm a bunch. They agree to join and then they have to sit there uncomfortably while the dudes they work with get lap dances over $28 gin and tonics. Right. And just not say anything about it. Awkward. Although I will say my friend Sonia, she was always the instigator.

She took me to so many strip clubs, way more than any guys did. And she loved him straight as an arrow too. She just loved strip clubs. It was such a weird thing that I thought was outta here. And this is a lawyer

[00:13:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: you worked with?

[00:13:10] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, yeah. And I, I don't wanna say where she worked because her name isn't super common.

That's hilarious. She was like an investment banker as well. Then we also had a religious guy who was like, I'm not going in. You guys are on your own. And it's hard to say if that affected his career, but who knows? It's not something we really thought very much about. At 25 years old, we weren't like, oh, Tom's such a loser.

We were just like, oh yeah, he is religious. This is like a thing he won't do. But you know, maybe later if you go with clients, maybe you do look like a little bit of a square.

[00:13:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I really do understand why companies are saying none of this, please. Yeah. But this story, this story, the one we're talking about here is interesting because this guy wasn't forced to go as part of a company thing.

He chose to go by himself outside of work,

[00:13:49] Jordan Harbinger: right? This was on his own time, on his own dime. So less forgivable from a thong in your face perspective. But in another way, maybe more forgivable from a, this is where the sad men and my macho industry congregate, and I gotta move in these circles so we can keep a roof over our heads perspective.

I don't know. It's a tough one. It is a tough one.

[00:14:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on, I said that I was not okay with what went down tonight. That my expectation would be that he'd walk away immediately, even if it's rude, that all these men are married, and what does that say about them? Is this the type of people you'd want to go into business with?

He said that he understands how I feel, but that that's just the way it is for a man. That he can't promise that these types of things won't happen again, but that he'll always tell me if it happens. Okay. I said that was not okay with me, that it was a huge violation of trust I thought we had. And he would literally leave me if the tables were turned.

[00:14:39] Jordan Harbinger: Huh. Okay. I wonder if that's true. If she went to a women only networking event at a salsa club or whatever, and all the dance teachers suddenly took off their pants,

[00:14:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: would he really leave her? Yeah. Or would he be like, go make those contacts, Monica, go live that Vita Loco. Yeah, that's right. Maybe.

[00:14:56] Jordan Harbinger: I don't know.

So she's saying that he would leave her pretty definitively. I guess we have to assume that's true. Right? We don't really know which, if it is true, then that is a clear double standard.

[00:15:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on. I can't help but think that he knew the event was freaky from the start, that the women were topless from the beginning, and that he's only telling me a version of the story that might sit better with me.

[00:15:16] Jordan Harbinger: Totally possible. Also possible that he truly had no idea, or he had a vague sense, but didn't know the entertainment would be so overt. It sounds like you're making some assumptions here. Just something to keep an eye on. The mind really can tell stories that support the conclusion that we've already drawn or that we wanna draw.

[00:15:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I wish there were some ways she could verify, but it sounds like she has to. She has to take it. Well, she doesn't have to take his word for it, but that's all she has to go on.

[00:15:39] Jordan Harbinger: Well, this is where their closeness comes

[00:15:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: into play.

[00:15:41] Jordan Harbinger: I feel like you can tell when somebody you know really well is lying. I am a terrible liar.

It's pathetic, actually. So maybe she's reading his face and it's obvious that he's being squirrely, which if so, maybe she's right about those assumptions.

[00:15:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: We proceeded to have a three day long silent argument, which we never do. I felt like I was learning something very uncomfortable about my husband's outlook, and I was in total disbelief about the toxic narrative he was feeding into.

I told him where I stand, what my boundary is with strip clubs and inappropriate situations like this, and after three days he finally said that if I'm okay losing out on contracts, then this type of thing will never happen again. He said it like I was stifling his work relationships, which hurt

[00:16:22] Jordan Harbinger: again.

Such an interesting argument. 'cause there is a world where he loses out in construction contracts 'cause he didn't get a, a lap dance or whatever alongside Dave, the drill operator or whatever, Dave, the drill,

[00:16:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: you know, that's what Dave calls himself for events too.

[00:16:36] Jordan Harbinger: For sure. Hey Mercedes, I'm Dave. They call me Dave.

The drill operator

[00:16:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: are used to being coiled tube and now made Derek hand. Yeah.

[00:16:44] Jordan Harbinger: What's it as Mercedes puts her Derrick hand on. Anyway,

[00:16:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: again, why are you freaking her? This is, you're like on, you're on one today, dude. It's an opiate thing. It's 5 million arby right there.

[00:16:54] Jordan Harbinger: This party though is so ridiculous.

It reminds me, did I, I think I've told this on the show before when I was working at. This offshoot of Maxim. I went to this party that was for, there's a website called Seeking Arrangements, which I guess is like women who wanna date older men. And in exchange for dating them, you buy 'em in handbags or something.

So I went to cover this party.

[00:17:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh yeah. And the cops busted it or something. Right.

[00:17:16] Jordan Harbinger: The LA Vice Squad showed up, raided the place, and I ended up chatting with them and I ended up taking out one of the cops.

[00:17:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: I was about to say, didn't you date one of the cops after that? I did. That's so funny. And honestly,

[00:17:25] Jordan Harbinger: she was so interesting.

She was also like 10 years older than me, and she looked like the kind of person who could and would beat me up. I didn't really, that was kind of the beginning and the end of it, but it was, that turned out to be a bunch of prostitutes that were also on the site to generate leads and like, it was a whole thing, but it really can get skeevy.

And I also went to that being like, oh, I'm just gonna cover this party. And I could have easily gotten arrested. I mean, I don't know what Vice Squad does. They probably have the authority to arrest anybody who's even around that kind of stuff.

[00:17:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: How real is this type of thing among men? Is it really the case that women just don't get it because we don't get subjected to these types of situations?

What would you do if you found yourself in this type of scenario? What would be an appropriate way to kindly decline such an invitation without making everyone else feel dirty? Should you make others feel dirty? If they're married, fake an excuse to get out of it. What is the etiquette around these types of situations?

Signed, hoping to look afresh at whether my husband's still a mensch when he's networking in the flesh.

[00:18:25] Jordan Harbinger: Whew. So interesting. This is a bit of a conundrum, a construction conundrum. Yeah. Let's, uh,

[00:18:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: let's drill down, shall we?

[00:18:32] Jordan Harbinger: Yes. Let's, so, like I said, yes, this type of thing is definitely real among men. I also feel like it's going away the more we as a culture talk about gender and power dynamics and what's appropriate at work and all that stuff.

Although clearly it hasn't gone away entirely.

[00:18:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: No. Apparently in some industries it's still mad men. It's wild.

[00:18:49] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It sure seems like at the industry your husband works in. It obviously plays by different rules. These male dominated fields just haven't maybe evolved the same way that say the legal profession has.

So yes, there's probably a case to be made for having to attend events like this to rub elbows with the right people,

[00:19:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: rub elbows with the right people, and yeah, elbow rub elbows other parts of your body on the wrong

[00:19:09] Jordan Harbinger: ones. Apparently, we just, you're like, oh, you're giving your nightmare feel. Can you not?

[00:19:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm sorry. It was right there. I I,

[00:19:14] Jordan Harbinger: yeah, I had to grab it.

[00:19:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: So did Mercedes.

[00:19:16] Jordan Harbinger: Boom. I'm all right. We're done. So this is a real thing.

[00:19:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think you should do Oxy every time we record.

[00:19:21] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And

[00:19:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: I've completely

[00:19:22] Jordan Harbinger: changed my opinion. I just need to, you know what, I'm not gonna finish that sentence. So this is a real thing.

Your husband might have had some legit reasons for being there, even if it is objectively weird. Just 'cause I, I agree with you. It is weird. On the other hand, the other Derrick hand, whenever I hear a guy tell me, oh yeah, I went to this work thing at a strip club, made some good contacts. It's part of my job.

I'm always like, is that really the only place you could have met them? The champagne room, it scores next to Howard Stern.

[00:19:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Seriously, you never heard of softball, right?

[00:19:52] Jordan Harbinger: Right. You can't join the Frisbee team or, you know, put 15 minutes a week in on LinkedIn. It's never been easier to meet people, not with a stranger's butt in your face.

[00:20:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: But then even if that's true, events like these are still going to happen. Yeah. And other men are going to be there. And those men, those men might not play softball. Yeah. They just

[00:20:11] Jordan Harbinger: might not be very active on LinkedIn.

[00:20:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Like Dave, the drill operator. You think this guy's generous with endorsements? I don't think so.

So it's like, whether you like it or not, whether it's gross or not, is it possible that the only place to meet certain people or to bond with them is at weird places like this? It's

[00:20:26] Jordan Harbinger: possible. I, I just think it's lame and weird, but it is possible. But then my take on this is what attitude are you attending this event with?

What is your goal, right? Are you going for an hour or two? Are you being super strategic and efficient about meeting the people you wanna meet? And then going home to your wife? Are you hanging out for seven hours while the catering staff take off more and more items of clothing under the guise of networking?

Those are two very different things and I feel like part of her anger is that he stayed as long as he did. He wasn't texting her regularly. Right. He just took his sweet ass time coming home after that. Which to be fair, I mean that is kind of su like 45 minutes later is dots moving.

[00:21:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: The other reason she's angry is that she has some very strong opinions about the legitimacy of events like this.

Mm-hmm. But even more importantly, what they say about the men who participate in them.

[00:21:10] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. She's not entirely wrong there. I think

[00:21:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: she's not entirely wrong, but I share your view, Jordan, that this kind of thing is. It is kind of weird and sad also, but I, I don't know. I'm, I'm worried that I'm a little biased.

Like I'm famously not a strip club guy like it, so the whole concept is a bit odd to me, so I don't really get it.

[00:21:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, maybe

[00:21:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: that's not fair.

[00:21:27] Jordan Harbinger: You were scarred by the one strip club you ever went to in, where was that? Nepal or something?

[00:21:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, strip club with Fountain in Capmandu. That's right. Was that the name?

That was the name, yeah.

[00:21:36] Jordan Harbinger: Oh God,

[00:21:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: that was so sad. The networking was pretty lit though, I will say that. Yeah. Oh, I bet

[00:21:41] Jordan Harbinger: you made some good top tier human trafficker connections.

[00:21:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: It was an investment in my career, obviously, but so part of what's so upsetting to her is that she has these judgments, these perhaps fair judgments, but also maybe these rigid judgments about what events like this are about and whether they're legit and most importantly, what they mean to her husband specifically.

What is this guy getting out of them?

[00:22:03] Jordan Harbinger: Right. You know, it's funny you mentioned that I'm also not a strip club guy. I used to work at one when I was a teenager as security. Of course you did. Yeah. Makes sense. I think I've told this story before and I used to see, like I went, worked at an after hours one that was kind of like broccoli and had underage women.

And then I remember my friend Robin, who is a dancer at one of them. Her friend was on stage and a dude just whipped out a knife and cut her on the butt with a knife. Oh my God. It was horrible. After that, I was like, I'm, if I'm not getting paid a hundred dollars an hour to work here, I'm not coming here.

Yeah.

[00:22:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Plus you were probably like 15 and a half. You just got your learning.

[00:22:35] Jordan Harbinger: I was literally 18 and 19 years old at this point. Yeah. Just not old enough to be around that kind of stuff. So, yeah, she feels like he enjoyed it a little too much and that felt like a violation. I get it.

[00:22:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: But to your point, it felt like a violation because of the way he handled it.

Right. He stayed so late, he was out of touch. He might have lied about the, might have lied about the event from the get-go and then played dumb, which is kind of like a betrayal on top of the main offense. Mm-hmm. Whereas if he had come to her in advance and said, look. There's this networking event. I think it could be really helpful.

I'm getting the sense that it might be a low key guy's adult thing. There might be some strippers there. It's gonna be a guy's night, I'm gonna go for a couple hours, I'm gonna make some contacts, I'll be home by nine. How would you feel about that? That would've been a very different story

[00:23:16] Jordan Harbinger: for sure. But then he might have lied about it because he knew she'd never go for it

[00:23:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: because he knew she would be mad.

Right. But she's not going for it in part because he lied. Yeah. So this kind of thing comes down to the way they communicate, in my view. And to your point, the spirit in which he's going. Yeah. Because I think you can tell when your husband goes to a naked hotel party because there's a guy who works at Chevron, he really wants to meet.

And when he goes to a naked hotel party because it's a naked hotel party, and the women are naked at the hotel. Right.

[00:23:43] Jordan Harbinger: I agree. So her other argument is, if these guys are married, what does that say about them? And are these the type of people you'd want to go into business with? And on that point, my feeling is I'm actually not sure it's fair to hold him to this standard, whether he morally approves of these guys.

People do business with people they don't like or respect all the time. If I'm in this guy's industry, I'm just not sure if I give a crap. If Dave blows half his paycheck at the white unicorn every weekend, I, I care if his check clears. If he can introduce me to the construction company, whatever it is, it would be a different story if he were thinking of being business partners with some of these guys.

Maybe then the relationship is a lot deeper. The moral character and standards of the person you're getting involved with, they have real implications for you. There's also something to be said for seeing people in a situation like that when they're drunk and they're doing something that's engaged in a vice.

You get to see a version of people and you know, you might decide that you don't like that about them. So it's educational either way.

[00:24:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: I had not considered that. That's a fair point.

[00:24:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I've definitely been in business with people and then, you know, they get a little too drunk or they, you know, they go to some after hours place and I'm like, oh, you, oh, you're that guy.

Cocaine. I didn't know that. Right. This relationship has a, a hard boundary, right, right. That I'm not gonna cross. 'cause you do drugs and you put those in your body as I'm sitting here on Oxycontin. What a data. You do drugs recreationally and you know, something, something. So, but what if this is about just getting contracts, building a network?

In an industry where you might have to move in some skeezy spaces, sometimes, eh, I don't know if it's fair to judge your husband for not judging these other people. I also think that her husband is making some concessions here. He's saying, Hey, look, I can't promise these events won't happen again, but I'll always tell you if it happens, I won't keep it a secret,

[00:25:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: although I really hope he means I'll tell you in advance, and not after the fact or in the middle of it.

Yeah. You know, texting her while Mercedes hand feeds him, jumbo shrimp or whatever, like, yeah, this party is different from what I thought it would be. Just wanted to let you know. That's right. They need to get clear

[00:25:37] Jordan Harbinger: on what these events mean. Yeah. What he's doing and not doing at them, why he's going, whether looking at naked women is in fact a violation or a form of cheating, which might be a conversation.

Or maybe our friend here is very clear about what that means, and there's no wiggle room for her on this at all. I'm also curious about that double standard. We talked about the fact that he, she says he would leave her if the tables were turned. What that means, how does that factor in,

[00:25:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: right? Like is he being truly hypocritical here or does it mean something different when a guy goes to a strip club or a naked hotel party?

[00:26:06] Jordan Harbinger: Sure. I wanna say it's a double standard, but I also feel like guys are wired differently and maybe there's a world where they can go to a weird party where the women are topless and it doesn't mean anything and it's not taking 'em away from their wives at the end of the day. Again, not a party I'd wanna go to, but a lot of men say that it's just, you know, entertainment and I, whatever.

Maybe they're repressed,

[00:26:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: but if she does it, apparently it's cheating. Like it's a big deal. That makes me confused. So is he behaving in a way that he would never tolerate from her? Because if so, that's a problem,

[00:26:30] Jordan Harbinger: right? Yeah. And that's something else they need to talk about. So my take and look, I might be biased as a man.

I'm very curious to know what other women listening think about this. So feel free to write in and we'll pass on other opinions to our friend here. But my take is you and your husband are both making some fair points. He might have some good reasons to attend dumb events like this, and he might be right about the way his industry works.

You might have some good reasons to be concerned that he seems to be enjoying these events. Just a little bit too much and some very fair reasons to feel hurt. By the way, he handled all this, if I were in your shoes, I'd wanna better understand my husband's mindset and values around these types of events because I think those are ultimately what determine whether this kind of event is fair game and I'd hold him to higher standards around honesty and communication.

If I were in his shoes, I would want my wife to know what's in my head and what's in my heart, why it might be tough to talk about this stuff sometimes and find a way to service my career without compromising my marriage. So there are some important conversations to be had here, and I can't tell you whether it ends with him continuing to go on certain terms or never going again, or you back down or you hold firm.

But I really do feel that this has less to do with the other men at this event and what happens there, and more to do with how your husband conducts himself and how he lets you in on that and whether you trust him. And of course, just how many jumbo shrimp he destroys while he's there. But that goes without sex.

So get to talking and good luck. All right. Now I'm gonna take my top off and hand feed you some jumbo discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by delete me your personal information, name, phone number, email, even Your home address is shockingly easy to find online.

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Alright, next up. Gabe. I do have to say though, I really don't know if this stuff is doing anything. Like I still, everything still hurts. Oh really? Yeah. I think that I took a really low dose. I'm in no danger of getting addicted to whatever this is because it is not doing anything and I'm not gonna take more.

It's not kicking in. Yeah. Interesting. Maybe it did take the edge off and I just don't notice which actually is the best use of this kind of stuff. I

[00:30:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: guess. You do seem a little silly. It's kind of fun.

[00:30:49] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it has loosened up my brain, but it has not loosened up whatever, you know, other, I've just gonna not finish that sentence.

[00:30:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mc five milli on the ones and twos over here. I'm loving it. All right. Let's do it. Dear Jordan and Gabe, my elder brother has always been a source of pain in childhood. He used me to take the fall for him, tell mom and dad that Santa Claus isn't real. Go and see how tall this cliff is. Tell our sister that she's adopted.

That kind of thing. Jesus, that's so dark. This sounds ridiculous as I'm typing it. Yeah. But these examples are just scratching the surface of our relationship.

[00:31:23] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's a tough sibling to have, but I'm confused. Tell mom and dad that Santa Claus isn't real. I mean, I think they know

[00:31:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: What if they didn't know and he, the kids figured it out first.

Yeah. That's actually kind of funny.

[00:31:34] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:31:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm guessing he means his brother made him tell the parents that the kids knew. Yeah. He wasn't real. Okay,

[00:31:39] Jordan Harbinger: I see. I see. Yeah. And telling the sister that she's adopted. We don't know if that's true or not, but either way, that's either

[00:31:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: way. That sounds really cruel.

[00:31:46] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. What is this guy's problem?

[00:31:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know. What is this kid's problem? After he graduated college, got married and started a family of his own, he gradually stopped coming to a lot of family gatherings, but the rest of my family loves him and extols his virtues, how much money he makes, how he gives a lot of money to his alma mater and how he gives extravagant gifts.

But this generosity has not extended to my family. He's always given my children gifts that I have either asked him not to like Disney Princess merchandise, or that is for children several years younger than their actual age. He sends me birthday cards stating that I'm his favorite niece, favorite grandmother, favorite teacher.

It's what passes for humor for him. Granted, the variety can be somewhat creative, but it also allows him to avoid acknowledging me or my wife or kids as a person. And my wife receives nothing entirely, though I can understand the age problem as he hasn't seen my kids in years. He most recently sent my daughter four different packages of archaic nine volt batteries.

Another package arrived for her containing three pounds of nuts, and she has a tree nut allergy. Oh geez. He's seen her firsthand puking all night from coming into contact with them in the past, huh? The nuts arrived by themselves after I texted him to stop sending her obsolete batteries. Prior to that, he had sent her a package that included food to which I'm allergic, and it's an allergy that's much less common than nuts.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that this may have been a mistake, but at first he tried to make it seem like he was being funny. Then denied knowing my daughter had the allergy. Maybe I'm seeing all of this through a jaded lens, but it's hard not to after all the years of similar behavior.

[00:33:24] Jordan Harbinger: This is so bizarre and I'm struggling to decide if this guy is actually malicious or if he's just totally checked out and doesn't remember important things about his family.

But I'm leaning towards the former,

[00:33:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: obviously. Or does this guy just have like a really weird sense of humor and it's not landing the right way with our friend here.

[00:33:41] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, right. I'm kind of leaning toward the probability that he's just a misattuned weirdo. I don't know, man. It's hard for me to believe he'd actually wanna harm and possibly kill his niece, but our friend here knows his brother way better than we do, so it makes me wonder if he's a legit sociopath or something.

I mean, you don't get the allergy thing wrong twice. That's,

[00:33:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: yeah, that's a little bit odd. But I don't know. I have to say like sending somebody a card that says You're my favorite niece. Yeah. When it's your brother, it's kind of funny. It's kind funny. Like there's something funny. There's, we have a bit in our family, my sister's really into this.

She'll buy me balloons and stuff for my birthday, or we've done this with my mom where it's like you go to CVS and you get the balloon that says like, congrats on the twins or whatever. But it's just Right. Hey, Buckaroo. Yeah. For like a 4-year-old. Yeah, it is totally not appropriate to the situation. Yeah.

It's just the thing we do. But I don't know. That's one thing giving a kid nuts after you saw her vomiting at the house because she ate Brazil nuts and now you're sending her like,

[00:34:30] Jordan Harbinger: yeah,

[00:34:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: that's weird. There's something weird. I don't know. So he goes on at Thanksgiving with extended family. He called to FaceTime with everyone.

He relayed his side of the story, which was that Amazon got the address wrong and kept sending things to my daughter. What is that a thing?

[00:34:45] Jordan Harbinger: Well, look, if you add an address to send a gift and then it somehow got made the default, then other things that you order will go there. I've had that happen. Oh,

[00:34:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: he did like a subscription and then he didn't update the address or something and it just kept saying maybe,

[00:34:56] Jordan Harbinger: but then also to coincidentally send two things that two different people in that family are allergic to.

Right? Eh? Yeah. Okay.

[00:35:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: There's a pattern. Okay.

[00:35:03] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:35:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: The thing is, he was laughing through all of this in a manner that had three different family members face palming and shaking their heads. Mm. Two of them separately apologized to me on his behalf afterward.

[00:35:15] Jordan Harbinger: Interesting. So he's. Maybe not the only person in the family who thinks that your brother's an a-hole or at least that there's something off with this guy that's actually good data to know.

[00:35:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also interesting that they're apologizing on his behalf. I kind of hold that alongside the fact that they all idolize him.

[00:35:29] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. They seem to be giving this guy lots of latitude to be rude, uh, and an insensitive jerk while also acknowledging that he is kind of a problem.

[00:35:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: If I had made a mistake like this, I would be falling all over myself, apologizing and trying to fix it.

But I also realize that I can't judge other people for not reacting the same way I would. I'm now struggling with my response to this. I'd like to cut all ties with my brother, but I have medical power of attorney for my parents and he has financial power of attorney and one of them has early dementia, dark Me would like to ask him to justify Jordan.

You've started a whole movement. I know what is happening. Dark Me would like to ask him to justify in a group text to all of our family members why he would send my daughter nuts. He has a way of bringing up all of someone's past mistakes and making things their fault. I'd call him, but our conversations end with him blaming me for anything and everything.

Am I being too sensitive about this given that everyone else loves my brother? Am I the a-hole here? Are there other paths I might take that might preserve family harmony and not subject my children to harm? Signed Managing my allergy at a brother who's famously dastardly. Is he dastardly for refusing to behave mannerly or is he just doling out gifts?

Haphazardly

[00:36:43] Jordan Harbinger: Mc gabey on the ones and twos now. Yeah. Ending 2024 strong. I see.

[00:36:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. And I didn't even have to do oxy.

[00:36:49] Jordan Harbinger: It's, you didn't even have to rail out. Although, I don't know, I mean, I did take it orally and I, I think I need to be clear about that. So this is a tough one. First of all, I don't think you're wildly off base and being hurt and disappointed by your brother, especially given your history with him.

He sounds like a tricky personality to put it delicately. And if the other stuff you said is true, if these signs of what sound a lot like narcissism are actually real. Then he might in fact be dangerous emotionally, possibly physically, especially if he's actually trying to hurt your daughter, which is so beyond the pale that frankly I'm having.

Honestly, I'm having trouble believing that that could be real, but it is possible. I'm not doubting your account here. It's just so crappy that it's hard to swallow. Did he mean it? Yeah. Hard to know whether you're being too sensitive about all this. I don't know, because like what's the barometer for? Too sensitive?

You know, if your brother hurts you in a variety of ways, throwing you under the bus for your whole life, not being very kind or thoughtful about your family, not listening to you, not being able to have a respectful conversation, blaming you for anything and everything, eh, it's appropriate to some degree to be sensitive about that, and I'm just not sure that there's a clear line where sensitive suddenly becomes too sensitive.

Who gets to decide how hurtful an objectively hurtful sibling is. You know,

[00:38:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: also when you grow up in a family like this where one sibling treats the other siblings poorly and gets validated more by the parents, and everyone loves and respects that sibling more for reasons by the way, that sound like they have more to do with money and external success than, you know, like actual Like character.

Character. Yeah. Actual character. Exactly. I'm connecting some dots here, but I imagine it could be hard to really own your experience in a family like that and say, this really sucks, this hurts. Like this is not cool. So just asking the question, am I being too sensitive about this might itself be a symptom of this painful relationship with his brother and perhaps this difficult childhood in general.

And also this interesting comment he made that he feels he can't judge other people for not reacting the same way he would look. There might be some wisdom to that, but I also kind of hear him saying, I don't know if I can hold my brother to a reasonable standard because he is wired differently, which I'm not sure is actually fair.

Like why can't he expect him to behave? Well,

[00:38:55] Jordan Harbinger: that's true. So you probably won't be surprised when I say No, you are not the A-hole here, given that everyone else loves your brother. Because first of all, one has very little to do with the other. Even if your brother has some great qualities, how other people feel about him and your family, that doesn't have much bearing on what your unique relationship with him is like.

I mean, I get why their opinion of him might give you pause, but there are freaking pillars of the community who are total monsters at home. The fact that they're neighbors and customers like them doesn't automatically mean that they're wonderful human beings. I'm not saying your brother is a monster, I'm just saying that multiple things can be true.

Different people can see him differently. More importantly, there's something about this question that makes me kind of sad, I guess for the reason Gabe just touched on that it might be hard for you to own your true feelings about your brother when you're surrounded by family members who are kind of seduced by what sounds like his external success, which probably says a lot more about their values than it does about his flawless personality.

[00:39:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's interesting in a way. I appreciate that you're going, man, if everyone else loves this guy, what is wrong with me? Yeah. What am I missing? Am I just self-aware? Am looking. Yeah, he's self-aware. Am I just looking for reasons to hate him? You know, do I need to adjust? And that is probably one big way that you and your brother differ.

Just in the fact that you can even consider whether you're wrong, why? Mm-hmm. Other people are having such a different experience of him from the one you're having. So there's something kind of grounded and healthy and yeah, to Jordan's point, self-aware about that. But again, given the facts here, it does sound like you have a few legitimate reasons to be kind of hurt, concerned, at the very least.

So here again, I would invite you to explore what this question reveals about you and your feelings, the way you might decide how you feel, whether you even have a right to feel by reference to other people's opinions.

[00:40:39] Jordan Harbinger: That's right. That really does seem to be one of the big themes of his story, which if he really investigates it, it might lead him to some really good insights, and not just about his brother, but also maybe about other areas of his life.

'cause this is one of those templates that we tend to take with us wherever we go. So on that note, I do think you have a few options for how to preserve the harmony in your family. There are some good reasons to be a bit of a diplomat here to not create unnecessary conflict while still protecting yourself because you and your brother are still tied together through this power of attorney over your parents, and it'll probably help to be on decent terms.

We've heard some wild stories about this over the years. Things can get really ugly when siblings aren't talking and they're both responsible for their parents' care, especially when you're dealing with dementia. So look, I totally get the desire to start a group text with the whole family and ask him to justify why he'd send your daughter Brazil nuts for Christmas when he saw you stab her with an EpiPen last year or whatever, for being exposed to those same things.

But that's not going to help anything. That's a good example of stirring the pot when you just don't have to.

[00:41:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: I agree. This conflict is between the two of them. There's a way to have it that minimizes the drama, creating an audience and putting your brother on the spot in front of a bunch of other people.

People who, let's remember, think he's a saint. I'm afraid that's only gonna antagonize him. You're not gonna be inviting your brother's best self to that conversation,

[00:41:57] Jordan Harbinger: right? He already struggles to have a real conversation with you one-on-one that's not gonna get better in a group chat.

[00:42:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: The best way to confront your brother, if that's what you feel you need to do in order to move forward here, I think, is to approach him calmly, respectfully, hopefully, with curiosity rather than judgment, even if your judgments turn out to be correct.

So for example, if you wanna talk about the nuts thing, instead of going like, how dare you send my daughter nuts? Like, you know, she has an allergy. You were there when she almost died, like, what are you trying to do? Kill her? I might say, look, there's something I've been struggling with last year for Katie's birthday.

You sent her a bunch of nuts, but I also remember you were there that night. She came into contact with them like, you know, she has a severe allergy. I know maybe it was some kind of joke, but it left me surprised and it left me confused, and I'm just wanting to understand, did you forget that that happened?

Did you know and didn't think it was that serious because I'm really having trouble understanding why this was a thing, like, help me understand. I. You almost have to play dumb a little bit and make room for the most charitable explanation so you don't activate a personality like this. I think it's gonna be a lot harder for him to lash out and blame you if you're just inviting him to explain something really calmly that just doesn't make sense.

[00:43:05] Jordan Harbinger: Right. As opposed to yelling at him and giving him a piece of your mind and pointing to your whole childhood because you've already decided that he was in fact trying to hurt your niece. Which to be fair, you can't prove a hundred percent

[00:43:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. And he didn't say this, but I'm assuming a few things, like conflicts between siblings are so complicated, right?

Yeah. Like you're talking about the nuts and before you know it, you're like, and you made me tell mom and dad that Santa Claus isn't real. And Right. It's, yeah. You're bringing up all these things and emotions are running high. It's just really hard to stay grounded. Mm-hmm. So you have to go into a conversation like this with a really solid plan and just be overcorrect basically so you don't get to heat it.

As long as you can't know what your brother's intentions are, for sure, I think you need to be careful about the story that you lead with so you can make sure that you're giving your brother and yourself the best possible chance of resolving this conflict. And the same goes with all of the other problems between you, the big ones, the small ones.

As for not subjecting your children to more harm, that might just be about telling your brother not to send you guys. Weird, random, potentially lethal gifts anymore. It's so interesting. Jordan. I just connected something I hadn't thought about. You know, I have an uncle in my family. I think I've talked about this on the show like years ago.

Who gives the weirdest gifts? Yeah, my sister has talked about this on stage a lot. He gave everybody ladders one year. Oh, that is great. Not like step stools, like 30 foot ladders to a bunch of people in the family. How did he deliver those? He just ordered them. Uh, he had a big car or truck or something and my mom literally was like, I'm not accepting this gift.

Like I can't put it in the car. And I live in an apartment, so I don't know why you think I need a 30 foot ladder. Yeah. Oh my God, that's weird. He gave me a really, well, actually those a pretty cool gift. He gave me a really cool hunting knife, which I've never used, but it's a dope knife. Oh, you are vegan.

So there's that. Yeah, it's like the least useful gift he could have given me. But like he would always give really odd gift and he is an odd guy. In fact, over the years, we've appreciated that there's something, he's different, like his brain works differently. Mm-hmm. And it makes me wonder if maybe that's part of the mix here.

Like, is his brother, I don't know, like he has this odd sense of humor. Maybe he doesn't read social cues very well. Maybe he gets overwhelmed when people point out minor flaws and he can't relate. Nor, I mean, there's so many things that might explain this kind of behavior that don't necessarily mean he's malicious.

[00:45:11] Jordan Harbinger: Maybe. I mean, he just kind of sounds like a dickhead though.

[00:45:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: He might be a little bit of all of it. I don't

[00:45:16] Jordan Harbinger: know. But am I, maybe, maybe I'm a dickhead for

[00:45:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: assuming that anyway. I know our friend here is, is not just talking about physical harm, he's also talking about emotional harm. So I guess my advice is just to sit with these stories and these feelings that you have about your brother, and also to really allow yourself to own them in a way that might be hard for you sometimes.

And see if you can confront them with your brother in a new way. Hmm. My hope is that he responds differently to you if you lead in a different spirit with a more peaceful approach. Then you can decide if you need to radically redefine your relationship with him. Like if it's really necessary to not talk to him anymore or not accept his gifts anymore, or if you just need to put him in a different place in your life.

If you need to just remember, oh, Joe requires this version of me to deal with, and in other words, you just develop some better internal boundaries, or if you just need to put him in a different place in your life, like Joe gets this version of me and that's how we get through it.

[00:46:07] Jordan Harbinger: Agreed. My gut is telling me that that's the move here.

There are ways to protect yourself and your kids physically and emotionally without cutting off your brother completely or making a big scene out of it. And again, I say that partly because you have one huge practical reason to be on decent terms with the guy, which is your parents' care. Once they're gone, things will be different and then you can reassess.

But sometimes with difficult family members like this, the safety and peace you're looking for, it's really just about managing how much contact you have, the terms of that contact, and how much you allow them to dictate your feelings about yourself, especially given how unlikely it is that he's gonna change.

I hope that gives you a way forward, man. I'm sorry that you have this brother. I can only imagine how challenging that must be. But there's also an opportunity for you to grow here and build a strong relationship with yourself while also building some strong conflict muscles. And I feel like that's one big upside to this tough situation and good luck.

You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines. That does make our job a lot easier. If you're stuck working for an oversharing narcissistic holy water sprinkling mob boss wannabe who's keeping you in his orbit, you're addicted to shoplifting, groceries, or you've been catfished only to turn around and catfish your catfish.

Hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Alright,

[00:47:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: what's next? So this next one is actually an update on perhaps one of my favorite feedback Friday stories. We've ever gotten a letter from a really remarkable young woman. I. An Indian girl who grew up in Georgia.

Two very traditional, very conservative Indian parents who put her through a lot. Yeah. To put a blank, I mean Jordan, I don't dunno if you remember all the details, but they were trying to set her up with Indian men, many of whom were pretty bad. Like just bad news, not a fit.

[00:47:52] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:47:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: They made fun of her appearance.

They demeaned her even though she was incredibly, is, incredibly accomplished, intelligent, financially stable.

[00:48:01] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. She's like a scientist. And they're hooking her up with schleppy dudes or abusive guys if memory serves.

[00:48:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. And then in the middle of all of this, she meets this British soldier. We ended up calling Bridger, which I hear after I corresponded with her.

He did not fully appreciate and I just wanna apologize to him for calling him Bridger. Nice. But we were referring to him as her bridger fever dream. 'cause he was like this hot, awesome, sweet, sensitive. Soldier who I guess was sta, I guess he was stationed, I can't remember exactly where he was stationed or how they met, but they started dating.

It was a long distance relationship. They would see each other in person when they could. They fell in love and this guy changed her life, but she couldn't tell her parents that she had met the one,

[00:48:41] Jordan Harbinger: right, because they didn't approve to say the least.

[00:48:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Very moving, very remarkable story. And basically her question in her original letter was, I'm planning on making the move to the UK to be with this guy by the end of this year.

She said it was easier for her to move there. She loves it there. She'll do anything to leave this place. But her question was, do I tell my parents about my boyfriend before I leave or after I've left? And how honest should I be about the timeline of our relationship? And a lot of our answer focused on the upsides and the downsides to telling her parents the full story.

But ultimately, I think what we spent the most time talking about is how to build a life that is hers. Mm-hmm. How to embrace her own values, her own goals, and chart a path that is really her own. And to pursue this really beautiful relationship with what sounds like an incredible guy who

[00:49:24] Jordan Harbinger: hates

[00:49:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: you, hates the parents.

Yeah. So she shared an update with us recently and that's what I'm gonna share with you now. Dear Jordan and Gabe. I'm writing this to you while sitting in my now empty apartment waiting for my parents to drop me off at the airport. My bags are packed and I'm just waiting for my cat's travel drugs to kick in.

Long story short, after some I will say she sent me photos of the cat and this cat is so cute. I just wanna shout so high as

[00:49:49] Jordan Harbinger: a kite right now. High as

[00:49:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: the photos, I don't, I don't believe the cat was, uh, had popped an oxy like you before. I see. It's just a cute cat. Long story short, after some very tough conversations with my parents and lots of introspection.

This year I finally decided to move to the UK with my amazing boyfriend. Oh, nice. Last week I had the big conversation with my parents and broke the news to them.

[00:50:09] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. That is huge. I remember how much agony she was in about all this. When you come from a family like this, this is a big deal. She must have been so nervous doing this, my God.

[00:50:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, it was complicated as expected. Sure. To avoid a confrontation. Like the last time I tried to talk to them, I sent a voice memo explaining my move. I framed it primarily as a career move, which I'm glad I did, given their response. At first, the conversation with my mom seemed promising. She asked if I was serious about my relationship, and I said I was.

It's not just serious, it's marriage serious. Then she added my dad to the call and things took a negative turn. What followed was a 45 minute monologue about how my decision wouldn't work out, how he'd be there to say, I told you so and how I'd regret everything. The conversation was peppered with emotional blackmail, guilt trips, and passive aggressive insults.

The one that hurt the most was when he accused me of thinking negatively about everyone but myself.

[00:51:05] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, pot meat kettle. My goodness.

[00:51:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: That stung because they've never understood the mental toll I've endured, trying to be the perfect daughter for them. My dad declared that he wanted no part in my life with my partner, not to meet him, his family, or even visit any home we might share.

My mom meanwhile was mostly silent, though. I could hear her getting teary in the background, trying hard to redirect the conversation to something constructive.

[00:51:29] Jordan Harbinger: You know, this is interesting. It makes me wonder if she secretly feels differently and supports you or just doesn't have as strong of a position as your dad, but can't say that because your dad is a prick.

[00:51:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's long and the short of it, I think, yeah, if this were bridger tin, she would be the character who late in the story takes the daughter aside and is like, I was in love once. Yeah, exactly. I wasn't able to pursue my dream and I won't. That the same happened to you? Go be happy. Be happy. What infuriated me most was how dismissive my dad was of my concerns about this broader culture and some aspects of our family.

At one point, he used a horrific example of a case of abuse in our family to justify his cultural assumptions, saying at least that wasn't you. Wow. I called them out on excusing harmful behavior and projecting it onto people he didn't know, but he doubled down. The conversation ended with him laughing off my frustration, claiming we were having a friendly chat and accusing me of being too sensitive.

[00:52:23] Jordan Harbinger: Fascinating. There's that theme again. I, this guy's,

[00:52:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: yeah.

[00:52:27] Jordan Harbinger: He's an asshole.

[00:52:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Plain and simple. That's super interesting. I didn't even realize that that theme had pops up until now. But like you said in the previous segment, what is the barometer for? Too sensitive. Really.

[00:52:36] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, there is such a thing as overreacting or taking things too personally, but I find it interesting that like eight times outta 10, when somebody accuses someone else of being too sensitive, it's usually because they're just, they're being an ass.

Mm-hmm. And they're being objectively hurtful and then they're like, oh, I don't wanna apologize, so I have to turn this back onto them.

[00:52:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. And there isn't room in the relationship for like real empathy or healthy conflict, so they just put it on you. Exactly. Yeah. So she goes on, I was livid and hung up.

Knowing nothing productive would come from continuing. Since then, I've seen my parents a few times for birthdays and other visits. They've chosen to pretend nothing happened. Accepting the move as job related, but ignoring the rest, it's an uneasy truce. I'll continue leaving the door open for communication, but I've accepted that they may never fully understand or respect my choices.

I've decided to frame our relationships strictly as parent and child, letting them play their roles while keeping my boundaries firm. I still want them in my life, but on terms that acknowledge the full scope of who I am, that's all I can hope for right now. As I sit here reflecting on everything, I feel a mix of sadness and relief.

It's a difficult road, but I'm ready to walk it. I'll keep you updated as I settle into this new chapter. Signed, took it slow and decided to reveal my secret bow, and yes, it did invite more woe, but the headline is I'm finally getting to go.

[00:53:56] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Massive round of applause slash respect for her doing this.

I'm so proud of her. Her parents are black belt emotional manipulators, and she got out of that orbit, that tractor beam. She escaped it. Is following something that she knows will make her happy. And man, you think they're ignoring your situation now wait till you tell them you're getting married. Oh my gosh, are they gonna come to the wedding?

Just mentally prepare yourself, I think for your dad to just like not want to go to your wedding, which is really sad and his loss, but it seems like he's really stubborn and just hell bent on being a complete asshole.

[00:54:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, I wanna pause and appreciate that what our friend in this story is up against is massive.

Mm-hmm. It's not just I'm marrying somebody my parents don't really like or somebody that they would just never approve of. 'cause he's from a totally different culture. I mean that alone is, you know, a huge obstacle. But she is standing up to a whole culture and a whole way of doing things in their family that is very entrenched and very complicated and I can't even imagine how much courage it takes to turn to her parents who have done some really hurtful things and who still clearly matter to her.

Like she's not writing them off. She still wants a relationship with them. Mm-hmm. As flawed as they are. Say, I'm really sorry that you're not gonna be happy with me, but this is the person I love.

[00:55:12] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:55:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: I have very good reasons for loving this person. I wanna build my own life and I'm doing this like that takes a degree of courage that honestly, I don't know if I've ever had to conjure.

I agree. In my life. I don't know if I could have done it. At least not with half the grace. She did. And yeah, I share your view, Jordan. I'm just like applauding her over here. It's amazing.

[00:55:31] Jordan Harbinger: This isn't over yet. Right? When she says, Hey mom, I'm getting married. You and dad should come, and then it's okay. I'll ask your dad.

And then dad's like, no, we're not coming and we're not gonna let the family come because I gotta get my way. It's just gonna be a whole thing. Just mentally prepare yourself maybe for that a little bit. I'm sure she already has.

[00:55:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I think she's in the process of doing all of that, for sure. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting that she said, I've accepted that they may never fully understand or respect my choices.

That's a really big thing to get over. It's a, a hard thing to come to terms with. It reminds me of a big theme on the show, a big theme this year, especially this grief concept we keep talking about, and not just grief for people when they leave or when they die, but, you know, grief for versions of relationships that we wish we had, we wish we could have had.

And one of the hardest forms of grief I, I can think of is, you know, hoping that your parents would meet you in a certain way or accept you for who you are and finding out that they just won't be able to do that. It's very painful and she has been in a parallel process. One is, you know, having the courage to embrace this guy and build this life, and the other is grieving a painful shift in her relationship with her parents.

It's a big deal.

[00:56:36] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, I guess the best case scenario here is over time the parents realize, oh, this is really happening. They're getting married, or she's pregnant, or whatever, and they may be finally come around to, maybe I should build a relationship here. It's gotta be so frustrating to be a person like her dad because he's gonna lose this.

But instead of just not getting his way, he's gonna lose his daughter and his grandkids. And it's just like, wow. Talk about just stepping on your own dong over and over again. It's very interesting how much of a sort of spoiled emotion, emotionally spoiled child her father is acting like It's very toxic.

[00:57:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's interesting 'cause in a way it makes it so much more painful and in another way it kind of makes it simpler for her. Yep. You know, if a parent is this committed to their views, if they're this unwilling to meet you or see things your way or just empathize, like there's no conversation to be had and so it kind of simplifies matters and lets her off the hook.

She did her part. Mm-hmm. They don't wanna meet her. Okay. Time for me to go my own way. Exactly. I'm not saying it's not painful, but in a way it is simpler.

[00:57:37] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Wishing you the best. Thank you so much for the update. I'm very excited for you and definitely keep in touch. We'd love to follow this as it progresses.

And now for some decidedly non-toxic gift ideas, we'll be right back.

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All of the deals, discount codes and ways to support the show are at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. The AI chatbot is also really good at surfacing the codes over at Jordan harbinger.com/ai and a. If that doesn't work, you can email usJordan@jordanharbinger.com and we'll dig up the code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show.

Alright, back to feedback Friday and now for the recommendation of the week.

[01:01:03] Clip: I am addicted to Lit Filler.

[01:01:06] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, my recommendation of the week is tailored clothing. I know this sounds a little bit basic and people are like, yeah, I've got a tailored suit. As I've mentioned a few times over the last few years, I've really gotten in shape.

I've lost a bunch of weight. My body's taken a completely different kind of proportion. I guess I could say. It's been a cool journey. Now I'm literally a size small pants with a 32 inch inseam. And a lot of the dad shirts from a lot of brands, especially American brands, they just don't fit. Because when you're not sort of filling out your gut and stuff like that, and you have, and I, and I will never fail to mention this, when you have a six pick,

[01:01:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: oh yeah, your shirts

[01:01:40] Jordan Harbinger: are boxy and they don't look good, and your choice is to, I don't know, find some fancy European brands and then what?

Donate all your clothes or look at a reasonably priced, tailored in your area. Take a couple of shirts in, have them tailored, test them out, see if you like it, and then say, Hey, you did a really good job with these, you. What if I bring you 10 other shirts and four pairs of pants? Can you cut me? Kind of a bulk deal on these things.

So instead of, I don't know, 25 bucks to tailor a shirt, it's down to 20 and you know, you pay a couple hundred bucks more, but you don't have to buy all new clothes and now everything fits to your exact measurements. Now, I wouldn't go too small 'cause you might gain a little bit of weight back or whatever, but like you don't have to get rid of your entire wardrobe.

You can just have stuff tailored. Most of us don't think about doing that. We think about doing it with a suit. We might think about doing it with some kind of jacket, but you should be doing it with pretty much every pair of pants or shirts, as long as they're decent enough to do it with, that doesn't fit you the way that you want.

It's actually quite cost effective. Another trick that I have is, say I'm going to Taiwan for a couple of weeks. Instead of paying 30 bucks to have a t-shirt tailored here in California, I'll just pack another suitcase and I might even pay to check the bag. Might be 50 bucks. Then I go to a tailor in Taiwan, drop off an entire suitcase full of stuff that doesn't fit.

Then for a, I don't know, a fifth or a 10th of the price in a week, I've got tailored everything and then I come back. So you can really get a whole new wardrobe essentially by taking clothes that don't fit to countries where things just aren't as expensive. I highly recommend this. It's very, very much a way to kind of pay for part of your vacation.

I've had so many clothes tailored in Serbia back in the day that I paid for my airline ticket in savings.

[01:03:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's awesome.

[01:03:18] Jordan Harbinger: And everything fit amazing. You know, you really just have tailored clothes. It's amazing.

[01:03:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, that time when you and I were going back and forth to Korea Yeah. And we would have to fly through China every time we went through China.

I would go to this, Taylor and I would get these amazing tailored shirts and suits and stuff. And then when we stopped going and I grew or changed or started working out, I could, nothing fits. I didn't have all these nice tailored shirts anymore. Yeah, so this is a really good hack. I might do this myself.

[01:03:40] Jordan Harbinger: It is, yeah. I highly recommend it. I think it's one of the best ways to look and feel great, and you don't need to actually buy new clothes. It's actually cheaper than buying new clothes. Also, in case y'all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. If you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, something you liked, something you didn't like, there's a lot of meme threads, a lot of fun stuff going on in the Jordan Harbinger subreddit over on Reddit.

Alright, so this is our last episode of 2024, and as we close out the year, I wanted to take just a few minutes to reflect on another extraordinary year. First of all, as always, I continue to be so proud to host this show. So grateful. I feel like I say this every year, but getting to talk to such remarkable people, sharing their stories, their wisdom with all of you.

It is very special. It's so much fun. I'm kind of in awe that I get to do this as a job. It's a literal dream come true. Then hearing all your stories on feedback Friday, getting to grow with you, play with you sometimes. Be shocked by you. Definitely entertained by you. It's truly an honor and a joy. It really is.

And then we get to tackle some of my favorite topics on Skeptical Sunday. That stimulates a whole other part of my brain. And it's been really cool to see how those episodes land with all of you. And the fact that I get to do all this with such an amazing team, and I know every podcaster out there sings their team's praises and they should.

But our team really is in a league of their own. And you guys notice this stuff all the time. You always write in and tell us all the time. Jen, my wife, my producer, my partner, the magician behind the scenes, she makes the trains run on time. She coordinates our marketing, our sponsors, our schedule, literally every aspect of the show is possible because of her.

So Jen's the real MVP over here. Jay Sanderson is our editor. He's a true savant when it comes to audio. We, we send him a lot of stuff that probably would get trashed and it comes out pristine. He's also a gem of a human being, and he's the person who makes us sound so crisp and clean week after week.

And then Robert Fogarty, our other associate producer, the Invisible Glue, holding this whole operation together. He's the guy behind our detailed show notes, our publishing schedule, our tech stack, all that stuff. He's also really funny and erudite and just a, a lovely, lovely guy. Big fan of Bobby Fi Gotti.

Ian, he does all of our video work, so he's not in the audio side of things, but if you've ever watched an episode of this podcast on YouTube, that's his handwork, super reliable, the only digital nomad that I would ever consider hiring, and he's been working with us for a long, long time. He always cringes when I say that, Ian, your, your job is in no danger.

You're an old standby and you're not going anywhere. Actually, you're going everywhere. But as far as your, as far as you working here with us, you're a rock solid dude, and we couldn't do it without you. And then taught us, our man from the Baltic states living in western Europe. He's the guy who hand draws, yes, those are hand drawn.

All that show art for each guest. That is his handiwork. He does those for us every single week. Just really appreciate the work. He's never been late with anything. I mean, it's, we just really have a lot of good luck with this team. Really incredible. And then there's Gabe, who's, you know, you're all right.

I guess he shows up on time, does the job, got a few notes, can talk about those later. Uh, I'm kidding. Of course, Gabe, you are bringing to the show the kind of person that I would like to be in real life. And, you know, I can always rely on you. I never have to worry about the quality of what we produce. I know that you are set the standard really high and we meet that week after week.

And I just really, really appreciate that about you. And you know, we've got, what, how long have we been doing this together? Four

[01:06:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: and a half years.

[01:06:55] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. So,

[01:06:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: yeah,

[01:06:56] Jordan Harbinger: it seems like a lot longer. And I don't mean that in the way that it may come across. No. But we have a lot more coming down the pipe together and I'm just really excited about all that.

And it's really cool to be able to work with your best friend,

[01:07:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: you know? Oh, dude, I feel the same way. Thank you. That's very sweet. I appreciate it. I, I feel the exact same way. I, I'll probably say something in a second, but thank you for sharing that. Fair enough.

[01:07:16] Jordan Harbinger: All that to say this team is amazing. I wanna thank all of them from the bottom of my heart for their hard work, their creativity, their love, their dedication.

I could go on and on. This show would literally not be possible without them. Gabe, I was thinking about some of the letters we got this year and I was like, should we do a top five kind of thing? Talk about some of the bangers.

[01:07:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, we can, yeah. Do you have a few? There are a few feedback Friday bangers that just keep rattling around in my head on a weekly basis.

[01:07:38] Jordan Harbinger: Same. And obviously we get bangers every single week. It's hard to even begin to try to rank them, but I thought it would be fun to revisit a few of our greatest hits. So for me, coming in at number five is the one from last week. The guy who was reverse catfishing catfish, kind of.

[01:07:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. That's a good one.

Episode 10 93. By the way,

[01:07:54] Jordan Harbinger: it was just like one bit of bad judgment after another potentially,

[01:07:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: and we'll just see. But also bold and playful, and then that story kept turning. I love that letter. It did. Yeah. Just kept unfolding. Yeah. We'll see

[01:08:07] Jordan Harbinger: what happens. Exactly. It may yet unfold even more. Number four.

The MAGA grandparents who were super right wingy, but then smuggled in undocumented immigrants who murdered somebody in Mexico and smuggled them using a coyote.

[01:08:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Small correction. It was one undocumented immigrant and he, yeah, he murdered somebody in Mexico was my two boys. It was brothers, but they only brought one of them over.

Oh, okay. Because the other was really in trouble and they didn't want to bring him.

[01:08:30] Jordan Harbinger: Got

[01:08:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: it. But yeah, he murdered somebody in Mexico, but he murdered his abuser. So yeah, very complicated.

[01:08:35] Jordan Harbinger: But they still paid a coyote to smuggle an illegal into the country after being like, it's the illegals. And it's like, okay.

That

[01:08:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: was episode 10 72. If you haven't heard it, it's worth going back and listening to it.

[01:08:45] Jordan Harbinger: And then number three for me is that, I think he said he was a sex addict and he got that lesbian couple pregnant and then, I dunno, they broke up and they were like, we're suing you for child support. And he's like, what

[01:08:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: the hell?

Oh my god. Dude, I forgot about that one. Yeah. Yep. So I just looked it up, episode 9, 9 5. I might have to go back and listen to that one again. I forgot about that one. Yeah, that one was bonkers. Yeah, he was just like, what did, they had threesomes together? Yeah. And he was like, it was the most, he was like the most fun three.

People could have together, but they were playing like Russian roulette with the baby Macon basically. And he was like, whoever gets pregnant gets to be the mom. And then Oh, and then they split up, right? Right. Yeah. And then now someone's coming after him or something. I can't remember. They're

[01:09:23] Jordan Harbinger: coming after him for child support.

'cause they're like, oh, we need money.

[01:09:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: But then he signed a paperwork in advance saying that he wasn't responsible for any, but he

[01:09:30] Jordan Harbinger: didn't have a copy of it file, but

[01:09:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: he never got a copy. Yeah,

[01:09:33] Jordan Harbinger: the whole thing is just totally ridiculous. Oof. And then number two for me is maybe the saddest story we've ever taken on the show.

The one about the friend with postpartum psychosis who ended up killing her baby. That was, yeah, horrific.

[01:09:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: That was legendary feedback Friday stuff. Yeah, that was episode 9 61. That was so tragic, man. Yeah. Actually, I have a little update about that one. So we heard from our listener who wrote in about this story, it was his friend who had done this, if you guys don't remember, his friend had a baby and then she went through postpartum psychosis, which turns out affects way more people than I thought.

Mm-hmm. Like there are so many people experiencing psychosis after childbirth. It's wild. Then she was put in a hospital for a time and then they brought the baby back in. Right. Because they wanted to encourage mother and baby to bond, but it wasn't, I guess she wasn't ready or they, it wasn't clear that she was stable and then she ran out of the hospital with the baby into the woods and killed the baby.

So tragic. Yeah. So the update I got recently was that the woman who went through this, she's now in a secure hospital receiving treatment rather than prison, which is good for her. I think this person said one of her friends has exchanged letters with her letting her know that all of the friend group is thinking about her, but they don't have a ton of contact with her.

Ugh. Such a brutal story. That is absolutely wild. I'll be thinking about that one for a while. I have a feeling I know what number one is. Can I guess, yeah, go for it. The rubber mallet story, obviously

[01:10:56] Jordan Harbinger: the rubber mallet story. That was episode 9 26.

[01:10:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. Okay. So I just looked it up. That was actually late 2023.

I don't care. So technically did not happen in 2024, but I will allow it because we have never, we have yet to process this event and yet we have to talk about it.

[01:11:11] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that one's grandfathered in as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, because that is one of my all time favorite moments on the show when we couldn't even get through this incredibly dark letter without laughing our faces off.

And so many people wrote in after that one. It's just feedback Friday lore at this point, and I still think about this moment. So for those who don't remember or didn't hear this one, and Gabe, uh, it's been a while. The woman who rode in dated a really abusive guy, and she separated from him. And then that guy went on to date this other woman who one day, I can't remember exactly why,

[01:11:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: they were like hammered.

I think they were drinking, and then went driving home or something, and they got into a fight in the car. That's right.

[01:11:48] Jordan Harbinger: So they get outta the car and he's walking down the road and she runs up behind him and takes a rubber mallet that she's apparently had in her trunk. Just kneecaps the guy and while he's on the ground, she gets back in the car and runs him over and then runs him over again multiple times and then drove off.

Oh, that's right. She drove off. Gabe's giggling like a psychopath. Gabe was giggling like a psychopath. Dude. You're doing now both of us. You're like a psychopath now. We couldn't even finish this letter. We couldn't even, it was so hysterical. And now that I'm saying it makes me feel a little bit like maybe I'm also a psychopath, but it was so damn funny.

And if you really, if you disagree with us or you can't imagine that, you definitely have to go back and listen to episode 9 26.

[01:12:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: I will never, ever forget that episode because No. When I read the letter, I was like, my God, this is horrible. This is crazy. Like I was so disturbed by it. And then we get to reading it and it's like, it was so beyond the pale.

It was so heightened and crazy and absurd. That's right. That like we, you couldn't not laugh or like we could not laugh just to get through it. That's

[01:12:52] Jordan Harbinger: right. And people were like, oh, this is fake. You guys fell for it. So we looked up the woman's the, the incident and there's like a mugshot with her in photo weapon.

And we're like, no, no, no. This is,

[01:13:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: this

[01:13:02] Jordan Harbinger: is

[01:13:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: real. One of my favorite things that came outta that episode was we were like, why does she have a rubber mallet in the car? Right. And then everybody, like three to five people chimed in with various reasons that people carry rubber mallets around. Mm-hmm. And one of them was to pound signs into the ground.

And I don't know how much detail to go into, 'cause I kind of want to maybe try to protect this woman's privacy to some degree, but whatever. It turned out that she had like a very normal job. That requires you to pound signs into the ground and that she was doing it all the time and that's why she had it in her car.

That's right. But it was so funny to imagine this person who is dealing with clients and being very normal and keeping up appearances, like having this very normal job that she apparently like probably went to the next day. And then at night she's knee capping her boyfriend and running off in the scene.

It's so wild. Geez.

[01:13:49] Jordan Harbinger: So many good ones. It is kind of fun to look back at all the DOS cruises we took this year. Yeah.

[01:13:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Warm our hands on all the dumpster fires from days of your

[01:13:56] Jordan Harbinger: That's right. Still smoldering in the rear view mirror. Exactly. Next to the li light limp body of your boyfriend. So look, I don't know how you summarize a year like this any year.

That was

[01:14:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: pretty good. You did it I think, really

[01:14:09] Jordan Harbinger: in a few minutes. Uh, it was a wild one. Life is crazy. This world keeps getting more and more complicated and you guys continue to blow our minds with your letters. So I don't quite know how to do justice to all that, but I do wanna say, I know this year's been hard for a lot of people in so many ways.

It's been sad. It's been strange a lot of the time. It's been pretty damn bleak. I mean, there are war being fought all over the world right now, deeply tragic wars, Ukraine, Russia, Israel, Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Myanmar, Mexico. The list goes on and on. I don't know about you, but for somebody who reads the news every day, who has to follow this stuff for the show, reading about all the awful things going on in the world, it really does take a toll on me.

It's just indescribably sad, the suffering that people experience the intractability of certain problems. I don't have enough words here. It's very hard to watch. Here in the states closer to home, we have so many other problems. Division, fear, uncertainty, economic insecurity, a broken healthcare system, maybe the weirdest economy we've had in decades.

Collective values in a crisis, a confusing and fragmented culture. I could go on and on and those problems are not unique to the states. We're all dealing with them to some degree, but whatever you're going through, whatever side of the political aisle you're on. 2024 was a strange one for sure. I've felt it.

You've felt it. We're all experiencing it. But the idea, I keep coming back to, and maybe this is a tiny bit naive of me, but I really do believe this. We have to make room for the good and the bad in our lives. We have to be in touch with the tragedy and the joy because there's, there is so much to be hopeless about and there's so much to be hopeful for.

The news is not gonna remind us of that. It is not in their interest. That doesn't make people click on headlines or watch ads for Cialis before reading about something that blew up. Our minds don't easily make room for that. Our brains are survival machines. They fixate on the negative, but we can decide how we want to view the world, what values and mindsets we wanna lead with.

I'm not saying things aren't bad, they are. I'm not saying everything's great, it isn't, but I really do believe it's both. We have to stay connected to our hope, our joy, our gratitude, as well as our despair, our concern, and our healthy anger. Because like we talk about a lot, to only be in touch with one to quote handsome boy.

Number two over here is to not be in full contact with life. And the other thing I've been thinking about, and this one's more about the stories we've heard on the show this year, is how easy it is to judge other people for their choices. How tempting it is to construct narratives about what their behavior means.

So many of the letters we get, they deal with questions of anger, disappointment, sadness, parents who did harm, relationships that didn't work out, jobs that went away. The list goes on and on. And a lot of those letters are ultimately about the stories, often painful stories that people live with. And we often end up talking about how to work on those stories, either make peace with 'em, rewrite them, create new ones.

So what I'd like to invite you all to do this year, what I'm encouraging myself to do more is to loosen up on those stories that we live with a little bit. Maybe instead of just being angry at somebody who did something to hurt us, maybe we can remember that most people, not all, but most, they're not trying to screw us over.

They're not deliberately trying to cause us pain. They're just trying to build a better life for themselves. Or they're just scared. They're not operating as their best self, or, and this is so often the case, they're not thinking about us at all. So maybe instead of just being frustrated or disappointed about a situation or an outcome.

Maybe we can also make room for the unexpected bright spots, the hidden opportunities. Maybe we can remember that no situation or relationship is all good or all bad, but always a mix of both and how we view them or how we respond to them. That's what ultimately determines their quality and whether we get the outcomes that we say we want.

I say this not to preach because honestly I'm not some Buddha in this department. I struggle with this myself. I share this because it's the one big theme from this year that's really stuck out to me, and every time I hear myself say, well, you have a certain narrative about why your brother acted this way, or, well, you're interpreting your boss's decision this way, but it isn't it also true that, you know, whatever it is.

In the back of my mind, I'm also going, yeah, but you do that too, and maybe that's something you can work on in 2025. That's my little sermon. More of an invitation really. Hopefully an opportunity to put this one big feedback Friday theme into practice. Gabe, is there anything you wanna share? Good luck.

Good luck. Toping. What I just said, that was straight fire.

[01:18:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, seriously. I gotta follow Handsome Buddha number one over here. Geez.

[01:18:33] Jordan Harbinger: That's right. Someone in our subreddit, please create that flare. My ego is not inflated enough.

[01:18:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, you know, one of the things I love, love about doing the show is that we get to hear from people from so many different walks of life, from so many different countries, so many different circumstances, people who are dealing with so many different challenges and questions.

And for the 10 or 15 minutes that we spend with each person, I feel like we get to be in their lives with them. We almost, I feel sometimes like we get to live their lives with them for a moment. I cannot tell you what a privilege it is for me to get to do that. I love it. I'm so grateful for it because I really do feel like this show makes me bigger.

It makes me more curious. It gives me an experience of life that is just so much greater than my own. And that's basically what I love about storytelling. You know, whether it's here on the show or my writing or just hanging out with friends and talking. So obviously. Jordan and I have not been through everything you guys write in about, you know, we haven't smuggled an immigrant into the country, or we haven't gone through postpartum psychosis, or we haven't gotten a lesbian couple pregnant while married, you know?

Yeah. Speak for yourself, Gabe. Yeah, actually, my bad. Jordan has done at least two of the five things on the list of the top five list today. So, and judging by the look on his face right now, he's about like two one star reviews away from taking a rubber mallet to my kneecap. But, uh, that's right. I'm on Amazon searching for rubber mallets.

But anyway, we haven't been through these things, but when you guys ask us to weigh in, we get to put ourselves in your shoes and imagine what we would do, what ideally the best version of us would do, and how we would do it if we were in the same position. And that is a really powerful exercise. But I gotta say the one theme we deal with a lot on the show that I find kind of the most challenging.

We already talked about it once today, it kind of makes me a little sweaty sometimes because it's just so big. Is the theme of grief. Mm-hmm. I have been really lucky in my life. I haven't experienced any super traumatic deaths, you know, well, I guess my aunt died when I was young. I was really young, so I guess there's one, but that was a long time ago.

It was kind of a unique situation. But you know, I was lucky enough to say goodbye to my grandparents when they were super old. And yeah, I've had to put down, you know, childhood cats or lost them when they got old, but I haven't lost a parent when I was 25 or whatever. I haven't had a friend die tragically or lost a child or a sibling or anything like that.

And so when we take those letters, all I can do sometimes is just like, imagine what it must be like. And sometimes, to be perfectly honest, I feel a little outta my depth because it's like, what do you know about this kind of loss? You know, like, what do you know about this kind of pain? And I'm sorry if this sounds corny, but it is such a privilege for me to be in some of this stuff with you guys, and it's a gap in my experience that I am very aware of, and I feel like I get to learn before I have to go through some of this stuff with you.

But then like Clockwork 2024 just mm-hmm. Delivered some very powerful lessons for me in grief. The big one, of course was back in March my cat Drake went missing. And I, you know, a bunch of you have reached out recently asking for an update. And the reason I haven't mentioned it is that there isn't an update.

He disappeared one day out of the blue and sadly we never found him. And it's basically been devastating. And it's the, I know it's like small potatoes compared to how painful life can get. It's like, I'm very lucky that this is the worst thing that happened to me this year. But it's kind of the first really super bizarre, awful thing that I've been through in a while.

And it's been a fascinating process coming to terms with that. We talk on the show about ambiguous loss a lot. It's kinda like Jordan and my new favorite topic, just, you know, this weird feeling of not having the closure you need to be able to put something to bed. And losing Drake was a huge lesson for me in how to live with that kind of grief.

And I wanna say that I've made peace with losing him. And I guess I have to some degree, but it still really hurts, you know, mostly I've, I've just kind of gotten used to it. And there's nothing left to do. We did everything, everything for a long time that we could, but if I sit with it, like if I, when he comes, when he floats across my mind, if I sit with my thoughts about him, yeah, I'll start weeping.

And that's just where I am. So all I can say about Drake, if you'll indulge me for a moment, is just that I love this cat so much and he, yeah, just, you know, changed my life in so many ways, you know? And, uh, sorry, I did not expect to be crying. Um, but we had 11 amazing years together, and he continues to be just like one of my greatest teachers because he's not even here anymore.

And he's teaching me how to accept and how to surrender and how to trust that wherever he is, whatever he is doing, that's his journey and that's just where he needs to be. And I will never, ever probably understand the reasons for that. And the fact that I can't understand it, I now see. Not an obstacle to processing this experience.

It is this experience and it's a very weird thing to live through, and I can't even imagine what it would be like to live through with a human being. And then there were other griefs, smaller griefs, you know, some were refreshing, some were tough, but this was really the big one. And to your point, Jordan, there were so many joys this year too.

I got to travel to these beautiful places, Brazil, Peru, Japan. I got hired to work on my first movie for a studio. I mean, there's just like so much to be grateful for. But what I'm trying to say is I do not think I would've been able to navigate any of this to make sense of the lows and to truly enjoy the highs of this year if it were not for this show.

And I think I said this last year, I'll say it again. I know it seems like Jordan and I have all the answers, but I am really learning right alongside you guys. All of your letters, all of your stories, what you guys do with the advice we share, the updates you send, they teach me and they move me so much.

And I really did feel more equipped this year more alive because of this show, because of you. So I wanna say thank you from the bottom of my heart to you, Jordan. You're my homie. You're my collaborator. You. You're my number one handsome boy.

[01:24:30] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, thank

[01:24:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: you. You invited me into the show four and a half years ago and just opened up my world and my career in the most extraordinary way.

I love you man, and I'm so damn grateful for you. And I wanna say thank you to everybody who listens every week. You guys are so special. You guys are so thoughtful. Corresponding with you in the inbox and talking on Instagram and in the subreddit and reading your comments, which are just like so insightful and funny and touching is, it is just such a joy for me.

This show family is one of a kind. You guys are my buds. You're my guides. I feel very, very lucky to know you and to grow alongside you. And I thank you from the bottom of my heart for spending part of your lives with us week after week. I love you. I hope you have a beautiful 2025 XOXO number two handsome boy.

Goodbye.

[01:25:13] Jordan Harbinger: Well, thank you for that, Gabe. Man. I don't know if I should try to tag that. I think it stands on its own. Happy New Year everyone. See you in 2025. Can't wait to continue this open-ended DOS cruise with all you. It's open bar 2025. It's, it's on much love. Bye-bye. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network.

I'm just gonna shill six minute networking.com. Go to six minute networking.com. Sign up already. You've heard me shill this on the show. I don't need your credit card. Go and do it. Everybody says, oh, I wish I'd done this earlier. Now's your time. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the podcast, all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi, or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast one. My team again is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Shout out to Ian on the video side. Todd, us does the show art? Our advice and opinions are our own. And yeah, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing things you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. You are about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with former NBA Superstar and American Icon Shaquille O'Neal.

[01:26:35] Clip: I'm flicking the channels and I see LL Cool J. I wanna be a rapper.

Say flick the channel again. I see a guy doing a great sitcom. I want to be a actor. Of course, I'm a sports guy. I want to be Frank O. Harris. The Immaculate Conception. I want to be. Reggie Jackson hit the home run. My father made me write from A to Z what I wanted to be. So A was a basketball player. B was a basketball player.

I actually got in trouble for that. Dr. J changed my life. Dr. J was the guy that said, okay, now I know what I wanna be when I grow up. I had some good grades and my father took me to a game. We're way up in uh, Madison Square Guard, probably top row. Born game, Dr. J Gold baseline, throw it down. The whole arena stands out.

It actually scared me because I thought something was happening. And I look at my dad's like, I know what I wanna be when I grow up, dad, I wanna be down there. I've won on every level except college, little League, AU Olympics, junior Olympics. So as a youngster, when I used to play and win, he would let me celebrate the trophy.

One day I'd come home after school and it'd be gone. And he was the type, you never asked him, where's the trophy at? So if I finally asked him when I got older and he said, I did it. 'cause I never want you to be satisfied. I want you to always want more as a player. So even as a youngster, when I was a player and I wasn't that good, that wasn't stopping me because I knew that because of my work ethic, I was gonna be somebody.

And once I saw Dr. Che, it's all about believing.

[01:28:00] Jordan Harbinger: I gotta ask or people are gonna get mad. What's going on with the flat earth thing? Are you, you're just messing with everybody with that. It seems

[01:28:07] Clip: to be flat. Would you like to hear my theory?

[01:28:10] Jordan Harbinger: To hear more about how Shaq makes important business decisions and manages his expansive career, check out episode 6 91 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.